Hi Shane,

Thanks for sharing your "opinion" on my system.

"However his yamamoto amps were way underpowered for the job and the atmosphere amps he also had were not my cup of tea, no real tube warmth."

I agree that the Yamamoto was underpowered for your music which from your statement regarding tube warmth, clearly requires some sort of colouration to be considered enjoyable. If that is what you like then that is perfectly fine, it is your trophy hi-fi system and your money to waste on one upgrade after another if you so choose.

Given your strong bias against classical music I refrained from playing this for you which is a shame since my system's real strength lies in the accurate reproduction of acoustic music. Under those circumstances my system sounds much better than just OK and those far more experienced than you or I strongly agree with this sentiment.

A quote for you from a Hong Kong audio forum....

“Allow me to wake everyone up by saying there is not a single system in this audio world that can reproduce rock, pop, classical & opera music equally well and sound better than other systems (even if there were such a system, we, who are mere mortal souls, lack the wisdom to do so!), if you can do one or two of this category of music very well, then you have really arrived in your hi-fi journey.”

I have almost arrived in my hi-fi journey... how are you going with yours?

Best of luck with everything.

drajreynolds June 09, 2007 08:01

Hi there, nice system yourself. I would guess your speakers are close to 100db sensitive?? so immunity to noise would be a must.

Yes, I know Aaron. he has tried to get me to buy the big Zu speakers. I had a listen at his house with his basis 2800 and it sounded OK. However his yamamoto amps were way underpowered for the job and the atmosphere amps he also had were not my cup of tea, no real tube warmth.

RE the 500MB's. personally they were one of the biggest disappointments I have had in audio. Mainly due to the hum etc due to the incorrect transformers supplied. Now what pushed me over the egde was Nik the importer in Melb. A difficult man to deal with to say the least and would blame everything else in my system except where the fault lied - the amps. I could no longer deal with a guy like this, so I got a refund and cut my ties.
Pity as I luved my cary 98P that I bought off an audio buddy in Melb, as well as his Mac 2102. - do you know Rob?? he has big Tannoy's.

You may have better luck with Nik as you live in Melb and it looks like you have bought a lot of nice Cary stuff from Nik so he should treat you well.
If Nik will let you listen to them at home first, go for it , but bass was not the 500mb's greatest forte and my Mac 2102's or your CAD 211's would no doubt sound a lot better in the mid's and treble. They might be good to run the woofers, as they are quite noisy due to their high input sensitivity. My Mac tubes amps are quieter.

Let me know what you end up doing, but I would have the inkling that your CAD 211's should be more than enough without needing the 500MB's.

cheers Shane

downunder June 09, 2007 04:33

Nice system, downunder. I have a pair of Cary CAD-211AE's on order and was considering getting the CAD-500MB's to bi-amp my speakers with, since they are meant to be a fairly good tonal match. Your comments made me a little concerned - were the 500MB's that bad?

Like you, i'm in Australia but i'm in Melbourne. I am guessing that you are in NSW? You seem to know Drajreynolds.

amfibius May 27, 2007 04:56

Gpgr4blu
I really wanted to like the 501's more than the 2102's. But to my ears the 501's were just sterile and boring compared to the musical 2x2102's. the 2102's just bloom nicely in the upper bass and have great decay that SS just can't seem to do.

But definately have a listen and hear the difference for yourself.
'
cheers

downunder May 03, 2007 10:15

Probably get to compare mono 2102s to my current set up sometime in June. As I said before, I'll also listen to the 501s, but I'm a dyed in the wool tube guy so I think I know which I will prefer. As for used Indra which is only made as an IC (and which I bought used on Agon), the biggest impact will be between cd source and pre. With Meridian's phenomenal transparency, you'll really hear a difference, esp in liquidity and soundstage and the upper treble. I must say that the difference was significant when I had the Mac 2200 pre but even more so when I replaced the 2200 with the C1000. The more transparent the system, the more significant the impact of the Indra. Incidentally, I'm surprised you didn't like the Hydra. Did you get a good pc (esp Shunyata) to plug it into an outlet? That is fairly critical to success
imho. I'll let you know what my conclusions are on the amps. Thanks for the advice and happy listening.

gpgr4blu April 21, 2007 04:40

Gidday Gpgr4blu

The c1000 is very expensive, so that will be on the backburner for a while.
I have an orginal Hydra but don't like it, so it is a boat anchor at the moment. But then again I have not used the Hydra on the MAC gear as yet. maybe I will try it on the 2xMC2102's.

I will try and get hold of a 2nd hand Indra. IC or speaker cable the better value

Personally the next upgrade i would do if i was you is the 2nd MC2102.

let me how you go, cheers

downunder April 20, 2007 04:59

Hey Shane--I also use Mc 2102 (about to test listen to them as monos vs the Mc 501s-I suspect I'll reach same conclusion as you did) Mc C1000 with tube module only, VPI Superscoutmaster with Dynavector XV-1S and Watt Puppy 7s. Shunyata Hydra with Anaconda from outlet to Hydra. Mostly Stealth cabling incl Indra fom BelCanto PL-1A to pre. Nordost for phono to go with Nordost wiring in tonearm.
YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THE C1000. What a pre--much better and more transparent than the 2200 (which was pretty good to begin with) and, believe it or not quieter. Music comes out of a pitch black background. PLUS, as you are a vinyl guy, quite simply the best phono section I've ever heard. The second biggest impact is the Indra--liquidity, extension without coursness or grain. I know it's big bucks, but u are in deep. Might as well go all the way.
I really like your system incl speakers with which I am quite familiar. You have what I think will be my next 2 upgrades HRX and monos. Great set up. Even the Nike Frees are a good call.

gpgr4blu April 08, 2007 00:10

Hi Shane,

Hope you and the family are well. Just wondering if you have ever considered tuning your listening room since I have discovered a product that may interest you. Read up on Acoustic System resonators, they really work as described and the effect is anything but subtle, unless one is talking about their appearance which unobtrusive. In my system the improvement is equivalent going from a cheap MM cartridge to a world class MC.

Cheers,
Aaron

drajreynolds March 09, 2007 08:39

I also wondered why Mac stopped at a 4K tone control, especially given that some amps have filters to deal with
the almost inaudible very-high-end (above 10K), like the
Headroom Max headphone amp (I have one of these, too).
The Kharmas are fed by an Edge NL12.1.
I stopped using the Bass tone controls after the C46 broke in after a few days, and now only use the 4K one just a bit, like between the 9 & 10o'clock positions, and again,
just on some sharp rock or popular CDs. It's a necessary evil with this kind of music if you have revealing tweeters (I'm just guessing here... I've learned never to generalize too much with this stuff).

For what it's worth, a few years back I had a megabuck Levinson No. 32 preamp and was surprised when I took it out of the signal path to run my Accuphase DP75V CDP directly how much the preamp had degraded the sound (added some distance and shrunk images somewhat).

With the C46, I actually like the way it sounds vs. the EMM preamp, a nice friendly relaxing warmth, maybe blending images a little into the soundfield in a way that IMPROVES soundstaging to my ears but still not making things lifeless or dull at all. Sibilance and grain are also reduced. (And all of the above without using the tone controls at all.) Bass seems more satisfying, too; a strong and more "melodic" low end without being boomy or overbearing.

It seems really sensitive to what power cord is used. A TG Silver I had was OK, but things really sounded full and well-integrated (especially with bass-detail) with a Shunyata Anaconda Alpha (the old, non-helix version).

My only complaint is that you can't adjust the balance or defeat the tone controls from the remote. Also, you can't turn off (or turn down) the display temporarily while listening. And the headphone jack on the front is not a standard 1/4-inch one (and mine doesn't seem to work at all, but I really don't use it).

I would probably go with tubes but I don't like the heat and hassle of letting it warm up when I want to listen on impulse. I will probably keep the Macintosh for a long time.

rgs92 March 08, 2007 02:50

Yea, I think you are right. I only really play with the 4k and the 20 and 35hz tone controls. I find they make the biggest diffeence to the sound without stuffing up the midrange. pumping up the 20 and 35 hz controls is quite fun with rock and pop stuff.

I was surprised that there is no 10 or 12k tone control, I guess Mac believe 4k is suffient.

what anps do you drive your karma's with?

downunder March 03, 2007 10:58

Yeah, on popular music my Kharma titanium tweeters can emit searing highs sometimes (never happens on classical, though). Turning down the 4k treble control is a real blessing, producing a nice warm sound with, to my ears, little to no loss of resolution. These are the best tone controls I ever used, by far. I once had a megabuck digital eqalizer and it made everything sound intolerably weird and lifeless, even with everthing set to flat. My friend's Behringer analog equalizer also sucks the life out of things terribly. But The C46's tone controls work really well. I also turn down the bass a bit (the 20K control) and that removed a trace of boom, with equally good results. FYI, I use 1 meter Kubala-Sosna RCA emotions between my pre & power, and 1 meter Stealth Indras (RCAs) from CD to the preamp. Thanks for the info, 'appreciate it.

rgs92 February 26, 2007 23:57

Hi

I have had the Mac combo for about 3 mnths now. The tone controls work, especially in the bass. To be honest I have not used them that much so far. Still fine tuning the sound of the system first. I wish you could turn on and turn off the tone controls from the remote, like the trim. That would be very good.

do you use the tone controls much?

I have not used balanced cables, I use SE 5 metre cables between the pre and power.

downunder February 26, 2007 22:25

Any thoughts on using the tone controls on the C46?
Also, do the balanced inputs and outputs have any advantage? Thanks in advance from a fellow C46 owner.

rgs92 February 24, 2007 17:19

Love the Maxx IIs. I am wondering what is next. There is no end, but the Maxx IIs put you in a different league of "big" sound. Vinyl is addictive. I am listening to some Big Classical and the system just sails through it. In the past most systems collapsed. I am thinking of trying the Dynavector again. Lets see. That or a Van den Hull or an Allaerts. There is also a potential sleeper cartridge at a very low price point that might be promising. I promised myself only one more cartridge /arm & then I am done. I need something with crazy dynamics and top notch bass. But I would love some more detail than the Dynavector. I hear the Allaerts can get very close.

dgad December 21, 2006 02:34

Yea I know about too much money invested in hi fi.

I bet the Jade sounds nice :)
Got the big Maxx's dialed in yet?

I have plenty of vinyl, just bought 12 albums over the weekend as a Xmas present to myself.

I keep telling the wife that she bought the MAC amps for me :)

downunder December 19, 2006 21:11

Shane,

I just decided not to list it anymore. I am up to a Koetsu Jade on my Schroder w. a Universe on my Ikeda. Very happy all in all. NEed to retube my amp. Need more music, vinyl etc. I read the Fremer review of my turntable. He is mostly spot on. Very impresed w. the review. Thinking of upgrading the VTL 7.5 to mark II. There is so much great product out there. Otherwise, Rauls or something as such. My preamp is my current weak link. I am going less expensive overall selling some odd bits and ends. Too much money stuck in this system.

dgad December 19, 2006 13:35

Hi Darrren, good to hear from you

The MAC's are excellent. the tube amps have excellent bass control, transparent with enough tube warmth to keep me happy and are very quiet with no reliability issues whatsoever.
Ever since I sold my cj prem8a's back in Sept 04, I have had trouble finding amps to my liking. After the troubles I had with the cary 500MB's I borrowed a mates MC2102 and first thing I noticed that it was quiet as a tomb, unlike the cary's. Sounded quite good and had that "tube something" that no SS amp seems to have.
MAC was not something I was even looking for.

2xMC2102 really sounds a lot better than one. Overall better sounding and best's the area's that the cj prem8a's had troubles with - namely bass control, tubes popping now and then and a bit too much warmth.

What are you doing with yopur system these days - I notice your system is not on gon anymore??

downunder December 19, 2006 11:28

Shane,

How do the Macs compare to the CJ & others?

dgad December 18, 2006 13:39

System edited: got rid of the noisy, unreliable cary 500MB's and have gone to McIntosh. C-46 pre amp. Actually preferred the C46 to the C2200 which amzed me considering I have used tube pre amps for the last 10 years. Demoed the MAC 501's and 2xMC2102's parallel monoblocks and the tube amps just sound musically better, harmonically better and great to listen to. The Mac pre and power amps not only sound great, they are very well built, very quiet and look cool. Hopefully this will do for a while

downunder December 18, 2006 13:13

Shane,

I haven't had any problems with pops, but I do find some noise generated from the amps even when my pre-amp is turned off. I'm running the amps through a Shunyata Hydra 6. The sound of the amp and pre is so good though I'm having a hard time complaining about the little bit of noise.

Jim

revdeg July 13, 2006 16:16

thnks guys for the nice comments.

Revgdeg. I have just received a new pair of 500MB's as I had grounding/transformer problems with the last pair. the transformers were noisy, buzzing came out of my speakers and even with pre amp mute on - switching lights on/off, switching the microwave or oven sent bid buzzes/pops thru the system. And I have two seperate lines.
I sent the amps back and Cary apparently made up new one's with better higher rated transformers to work with Australian 240vlts.
I have just plugged them in and transformer noise is neglible, noise from speakers has gone ( thou not as quiet as say Mac 2102's or bel canto ref100's which were absolutely quiet). there does seem to be a small amount of popping when mute is on, but nowhereas bad as before.
Have you had any noise/popping or transformer issues?

Hifimaniac and Aaron. No I have not got or listened to the definations yet - however Aaron I am going to take you up on the offer and come over for a listen to yours in the near future.
just have to sort out car 500MB amps first.

cheers Shane

downunder July 11, 2006 10:55

Hi Shane,

Are you joining the ranks of proud ZU owners? If so, welcome to the club. If you would like to hear a pair of Definitions then feel free to contact me and we can set something up.

All the best,
Aaron

drajreynolds June 25, 2006 10:38

Nice album collection. Your vinyl is going to sound great on your new Definitions. The Defs are very musical and they rock; rock, jazz, classical sound great.

hifimaniac June 24, 2006 06:58

Hi,

Just got a pair of Cary cad500's to go with my SLP98 and am loving the music. Was wondering if you are using the stock power cords, or power conditioning?

I replaced a Cary Rocket 88r with the mb's and can't believe the fullness and detail they just sound right.

Jim

revdeg June 11, 2006 01:03

Darren. The cary's sound more like a classic tube amp, in being they are slightly laid back, absolutely no grain in the upper frequencies, however can sometimes sound a little polite and lower volumes. that may not be as much an issue with Wilson speakers than my warmer mahlers. Almost wish I still had the 7.5's to use them balanced :)
I have been away for the last two weeks, so it will take a little time to get them dialled in better.

downunder May 07, 2006 07:30