System Update: Radical Transformation under way. I mean everything concerning the two channel rig is going to change, except possibly the cabling. Preamp, amp, speakers all moving in completely opposite direction.
I spent months assembling the "stacked Eminent Technology LFT-8A system. It has been terrific. I have never heard soundstage done like this. You sit down to an event, not just some music.
In the meantime, having procured a set of Chapman T-7 speakers, a favorite from over ten years ago, I have become friends with Stuart Jones, the owner. I thought the company was defunct; not so. He's involved in custom installs, but is going to make me a pair of his flagship model, the T-77's.
No more need for 8 channels of amplification, four sets of speaker/interconnect cables, two pair of speakers, etc. These all are being divested. Instead, I'm going to see how good utterly simple two channel can be. I'm reducing to one set of speakers, a single two channel amp, left and right speaker/interconnect cables, and stereo preamp (which, ironically is swinging back again to solid state as opposed to tube).
Will I prefer this? THAT is the difficult question to answer at this point. I have considered keeping a set of Eminents, however in order to do this switch properly at the same level of investment as I had in the system, I need to plow the same $ into it. So, everyting with two channel is going.
This is an entire "sea change" for me. I have only done this one other time in 20 years. It's exciting, but also a bit unnerving, since I do passionately love the sound I have now. However, I want to see what the other side is like, the side that says "Get the best streamlined system you can.."

I expect that the greatest feature will be awesome imaging. I know I will lose enormously on soundstage. No way a box speaker is going to produce the hugeness of the stacked Eminents. But therein lies the question. Which, in the end will I choose as most important to me? Will I find my holy grail of audio in imaging? With this sytem I have found half of it - soundstage. Now, I will focus on the other half - imaging. Hopefully, I won't lose too much soundstage. If I do, you may see me rebuilding the very system I'm disassembling. Insane? Yes, but I'm a compulsive tweaker anyway, so this is, frankly, as much fun to me as the actual listening sessions!
More to come, including pics.

douglas_schroeder October 22, 2005 07:50

Edit: I was going to say, "...I would not recommend matching ss amps of differing power, even if from same company." It worked, and was fun in the time I searched for an identical amp, but you should strive to obtain a perfect pair, or else you're results will not be as good as can be obtained.

douglas_schroeder July 29, 2005 13:15

System edited: Finally secured the second Outlaw 755 amp! Now system is in perfect symmetry. I didn't realize how much coherence was missing by not running identical amps! It was great before, now it is mind-melting! Last trip to St. Louis, I listened to a stack of T&A components (German; stands for Technology & Application)along with the new Martin Logans at $10k/pr. So, about a $40-50K setup, oh, and that's not counting the fancy, extremely high end cables. It's got nothing on my stacked Eminents. I was exceptionally pleased to think, "Man, my system sounds better than this, and at a fraction of the price!" I especially noticed that I have much more clarity, and the treble is much clearer than was on the $10k Logans. The use of not just related amps, but the actual identical amp has made the stacked Eminents blend into one. They sound now not just like two extremely close speakers, or one with rows of drivers. They now sound like one speaker with incredibly big drivers/soundstage. I play some music that if I didn't know was in two chanel, I'd bet I had the surround on! They are throwing such a wide soundstage and with such depth that the ENTIRE front of my room is full of their sound! There is no sweet spot, everywhere on the sofa is great. It's amazing. By upping the power on the bass it has gotten even clearer/cleaner, so that now the midrange is more easily heard. The bass was strong before, but now I realize it was too strong, covering up some of the nuances of the midrange. Now that the bass is more controlled and deeper, yet cleaner, the midrange dances. Having done this experiment, I would definitely not recommend, unless you have no choice or you intentionally want to combine tube amp with ss amp. If you are running all ss I would say the differences even between amps of same family are great enough to merit holding out for two identical amps. Also, because of speaker cable lengths and issues with using two amps of differing power, I had used four chanels of the 755 to biamp left/right mid/highs. I used four chanels of the 750 to biamp the bass of left/right. Now, with perfect synchronicity, the system is in perfect mirror configuration, all signals are sent to dedicated left/right amps, and then on to cables and l/r speakers. I'm sure this has a beneficial effect, but I'm not sure to what degree. All I know is, it sounds terrific!

douglas_schroeder July 29, 2005 13:10

Thanks for your responses, guys!
Jayctoy, I have an extensive Christian music collection; I listen at the church office too (I have a more humble setup there as well). Most of my music with lyrics/Christian artists are at office where I am most of day. At night I listen to smooth jazz/instrumental. I have very little music with lyrics, and the ones I do have are carefully screened.

Atsmusic, please don't envy my system! :) There's always someone with more toys currently. I know an individual who owns a Saleen S7 supercar. Great guy, but he's got a totally different life than mine. He's had other heartaches and successes. Many envy the car he has without knowing his life story. (As an aside, the longest drive he's ever taken in the car was about 6 hours, and literally had to stop on the hour to stretch, because the cockpit/seats are SO uncomfortable that you must escape to recover from driving it for any length of time). Exceptionally fast, and exceptionally uncomfortable. People don't realize that when they gawk at it. There's usually an interesting story behind exceptional things.

I have no doubt you will achieve your goal! My HT really was aided by twenty plus years of conservative fiscal living (always giving sacrificially to Lord), and lot's of discipline. Then the "opportunity" came with the change in house. Ten years of hard work paying down mortgage led to that. So, after about 25 years in audio mania, I'm experiencing a huge blessing because I dared to do one thing - step out of my comfort zone and try building a room. It was one of most rewarding things I've ever done! I hope you can have a similar experience someday!

Etran, so, I've got you curious about 'stacked' Eminents? I do things differrent than a lot of people. Many would never try something like the "stacked" Eminents. But, man, it's the real deal. The switch to Eminents, stacking them, and biamping them put me into the high end more than any other change I've done to my system in 20 years. These things make produce sound like I have a $50,000 system, even though I'm running extremely modest components.
Circumstances have allowed me to have the capability to vary cables, wattages on amps (165/200), tweeter settings, and sub settings. All of these tweakable variables have allowed me to get a stunning result in sound. I'm sure there is room for improvement, but I'm not rushing to find it like I always was in prior days.

douglas_schroeder July 10, 2005 14:59

Hmm 4 Eminents as double front, MGMs and 2 Vandersteen subs for music and HT. I gota listen to this, Still scratching my head.

etran July 10, 2005 13:55

Wow! What a setup! I envy that you were able to build your own room. that is my goal one day to have a dedicated room just for my stereo system. It might be nice to one day have a serperate room for movies as well. gotta work and save I guess : ). Anyhow thanks folr respdnding on my system page, you are the only one who has so far and it was nice to get your perspective. God Bless you!

atsmusic July 09, 2005 20:50

I myself, bless with good music,Pastor I played gospel
first before any other type of CD, Do you do the same?
I am geatful for what I have,God is good.Thanks

jayctoy July 03, 2005 16:58

After extended listening, I'm convinced that what I initially thought were potentially "double" sounds coming from the speakers is actually a more natural holographic reproduction of the source.
Solo voice and instrument is dead on for clarity- no sense whatsoever of duplicity of signal, so i can only assume that it is so with any source.

douglas_schroeder June 10, 2005 18:49

Tazmanian devils are welcome, evil spirits are not!
Seriously, I do screen music and movies for content. Years ago I went exclusively to instrumental music to get away from raunchy lyrics. After years, I found I was missing the sound of the human voice, so I've slowly added vocals. There is something very pleasing about a system that can reproduce the human voice in a palpable/believable way.

douglas_schroeder April 29, 2005 00:17

any conflict of interest with a devil guarding the system? ;)

alcides April 28, 2005 19:00

Wow!! Quite an impressive setup Pastor, A true inspiration for those of us who thought true home entertainment was beyond our reach.

Blessings,

Akebulan

akebulan April 28, 2005 12:27

System edited: Greetings, thought I'd post some impressions of the experiment I conducted with my main speakers. I had pair of Eminent Technology LFT-8's. Fabulous, economical speaker. I'd say a forerunner in the cost/performance race at a price of well under $2k. I had read a review of them in which reviewer tried adding a second pair. He likened the sound to the Infinity RSV speakers sytem (at $60,000 in the 80's). That got my attention. So, I did it, bought the second set of speakers and am running them in parallel (the tweeter drivers are center of each pair, surrounded by the midrange, to tighten up the high end). My system: Rega Planet 2000 cd Rogue Magnum 66 pre (configured with tape output internally switched to second pair of line outs) Audioquest RCA "Y" adapters Four pair Harmonic Technology interconnects, running into 8 channels of Outlaw Audio amps (Outlaw 755 at 200wpc feeding mid/highs on all speakers, and Outlaw 750 at 165wpc feeding lows on all speakers) Of course, the four Eminent Tech LFT-8's 2 Vandersteen 2W subs I have the higher wattage amp feeding mid/highs because it improved the clairity of the soundstage, and I can supplement the lows witht the Vandersteen subs. Impressions: POWER! Effortless bass- along with the twin Vandersteen subs, I now am running ten 8" bass drivers. No sweat with any low bass etc. More 3/D or "holographic" sounding. With the wider sound stage and power one perceives a more live sound. Cymbals seem to be easier to hear decaying, the tiniest taps are audible clearly. Subtle nuances shifting from left to right speaker etc. are easier to catch. Rock Music ROCKS! It's like a live concert! Thunderous bass, the voice sounds like you're listening to the monitors and you can visualize the guy at the mic... There is no fatigue from the high end; I used to have Mangepan 1.6QR's and after while listening with the volume up,I'd have to turn it down, just so much shrillness my ears can take. The Eminents are much more forgiving to the ears, and doubling them does not wreck that quality. There is still a "gravity" even at low listening levels. It sounds full and the detail remains even when playing softly. Watched the clip from Gone in 60 seconds where Nick Cage gets reacquainted with "Elanore". WOA! Overwhelming presence in movies... To purists, this may not be the way to go. At times I think I can hear slight nuances of two signals being reproduced, but when I hear a solo instrument, or voice, it sounds dead on like one speaker. Shortcomings in my equipment may be partly to blame; one set of speaker cables is two foot longer than the other and only 11awg vs. shorter ones being 9awg. One pair of speakers is about ten years older, the other recently built. The Outlaw amps are not identical. The interconnects are all same brand but not same model. Only one set of speakers on "Sound Anchor" stands - the second set of stands is on the way. The listening room is obviously small for such an attempt. It is likely more room tuning is needed (I'm using four Auralex propannels behind the speakers in the corners). I have not used "set up" discs or analysis to tune the system. If such limitations due to budget were overcome/corrected, this setup might move from being exciting to being astounding. I'm going to have some audiophile friends with better ears than me come and give their impressions. I may post them on my virtual system. I know one thing, I will probably always biamp now that I have tried it. Likewise, would be hard to give up the ultra wide sound stage and visceral presence of the twin speakers now that I've got it. Bigger is definitely better in some respects. I can certainly see how huge speakers with vast arrays of drivers are very enticing. I'm trying to simulate the same experience with a modest outlay greenbacks. As I said before, this project may not be the straightest line to a flawless signal/listening experience, but if nothing else, I'm getting a ton of fun from the project. I am enjoying attempting to create the poor man's "super-speaker."

douglas_schroeder April 21, 2005 20:26

Update: Two main speakers is good? Four must be better! I'm now attempting to run four LFT-8's in tandem! I will double everything...cables, amps, etc. Will end up with 8 amps driving biwired pairs of Eminent Technology LFT-8's.
I switched from the Audio Research LS-9 pre to the Rogue Audio 66 Magnum pre, since it has dual main outs (selectable internally). The power is already intoxicating; it's hard to conceive what it will be like when the system is effectively doubled! Stay tuned...

douglas_schroeder April 07, 2005 23:55

Yes, mtheime,
going into a fabric store is an interesting social experiment. Some women will definitely give you the "you're not wanted here" look. Others treat you like a novelty, wondering if you're some kind of closet quilter...but they all have this knowing look that says, "You're way out of your element."

The Black is perfect for screen frame. It absorbs the excess light from projection the best. The screen makers seem to go with black as a default option. As far as the whites onscreen, at this point, I don't fret too much about the picture. I care more about the sound than anything else. There are so many settings on these doggone projectors, you can get it to look white if you tweak it enough.

Yes, the rail and spline method is about the only way I can think of to efficiently and perfectly stretch the screen material. Just make sure you set the rail back about a half inch, so that the stretched material is beyond the inner edge of the frame. Otherwise, you may see imperfections.

You'll love the results, I think.

douglas_schroeder April 04, 2005 23:48

Hi Doug, Thanks for the very informative reply! I never would have thought black would work as a color choice. It doesn't make the whites seem less bright? As for the extra 1000 I'm with you. The use of the rail with bead is a good idea, I had made a screen a while back and could not get it stretched taught with no wrinkles. This thread has got me interested in trying again.Thanks. PS I also observed woman looking at me funny in the fabric store when I bought it.

mthieme March 29, 2005 17:53

Greetings, Mthieme,

I saw some info online, but basically, I did my own thing with the screen.

1"x3" frame, cut to size w. mitered cuts.
Spray paint it flat black
Cover it using "fuzzy" but stretchable black fabric.
Use double sided carpet tape to hold the fabric onto the wood, and cover the seam in the back with a second piece of carpet tape. This was by far the hardest part; took patience and hand strength to stretch material and keep it perfectly smooth while adhering to carpet tape. But with patience it goes well enough.
Assemble "frame" of screen with flat right angle brakets on backside
Go to Home Depot and get "Rail and Spline" Get the plastic rail, which is relatively flat and can be cut to length w. hack saw.
Attach to back side ontop of rail.
Screen material is "black out" material (used for curtains to block out sunlight) and can be gotten up to 54" wide. So, max size screen you can do is about 100" Maybe a bit more, but not much.
Observe women thinking "he's nuts" when you inform them you want black out material to build Home Theater screen...
Use smooth side of black out material as screen surface!
(ask for a cardboard tube roll to keep your piece of screen on clean and wrinkle free until attatched to screen!)
Lay screen ontop of rail and position (make sure smooth side is facing front of screen frame!)
Use spline roller device, or pizza cutter to push spline into rail channel.
Do not overstrech material; leave a bit of slack to allow last side to be inserted.
Screen can be attatched to wall any # of ways; I used sizable brackets ontop behind, and used drywall screws inserted through tiny slits in fabric in bottom to keep screen snug to wall.

Took two nights at slow pace to build. $90, but I hit the annual half price material sale by accident! :) So, your cost might be $115

Hope this helps. No one who has ever entered into my HT, and there have been a few!, has guessed the screen is homemade. It's that easy and effective.

Before committing to the project, buy a one or two yard piece of black out material, call screen companies and ask for samples of various gray/white screen materials. Project onto them. You MAY conclude that the extra approx. 10% of sheen etc. of specialty materials is worth the $1,000 or more. I sure didn't think so.

Hope this helps. It was among the best of DIY projects I've ever done.

The room is a testament to fact that if you're willing to learn, you can accomplish incredible things!

douglas_schroeder March 29, 2005 16:20

Doug, could you please provide a link to the diy screen or a rough description. Currently I use a green wall for a screen and I would love an inexpensive solution! Oh by the way, nice room.

mthieme March 29, 2005 14:59

System edited: Greetings, In process of lightening up the extra speakers I've accumulated! Will keep the two pair of Eminent Technology LFT 8's for use together as mains in HT. Eventually hope to passively biamp the four of them with 8 channels at 200wpc. Serious sound!

douglas_schroeder March 26, 2005 23:29

System edited: System Update; added new pics, changed cd, pre

douglas_schroeder February 22, 2005 18:30

System edited: Update: I have moved to an Audio Research LS-9 preamp, and have removed the Cal Audio from the front end, now using only the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000's analogue outputs into the AR preamp. I'm getting a little more definition and softness in the sound with this arrangement.

douglas_schroeder January 04, 2005 12:28

An Update: I have changed out my entire system from Audioquest DBS cables to Harmonic Technology cables. Superior in every way.

douglas_schroeder November 20, 2004 18:05

Doug, here is an idea, look into the reviews of the DVDO iScan HD+ scaler. For about $1000 (used), you can upgrade your picture much more than by purchasing a higher level projector. Well, that is if your room can get dark enough, and it looks like a basement, so I am sure that it is very dark.

Looks awesome.

macdadtexas November 01, 2004 17:43

Hi Doug

Very nice setup! I'm still working on my room also...your a lot faster than I am. Have had the spl meter and test cd going for about a week now...nasty 50hz hump. I'm going to make a couple of corner bass traps soon to get rid of that (or at least smooth it out a little).

enjoy the new room!

Dave

sogood51 October 20, 2004 15:01

Dave,

Ha, I liked your quote! Yeah, the room didn't just come together without some effort (I would suggest, similar to this world). I spent many an evening just standing and thinking out how to proceed with soundproofing, lights, wiring, etc. I'm VERY glad I didn't just have someone put it together in a week. I got tons of help from Home Theater Builder Magazine.
Someone once said building your own HT is a labor of love. I concur. But, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
One thing is shocking, though; the price tag. You need a pretty good pile of money prior to beginning, and or plenty of home equity, and or very good cash flow to do a room like this without getting into financial trouble (at least cash flow trouble). But with proper planning financially and otherwise, great dreams can happen and not cause relation ship problems (infer "wife acceptance factor").
In fact, I will brag on my wonderful wife. She said the words every male audiophile longs to hear, "I don't care what you do or how much you spend..." Wow! What a woman!!!!
Granted, 12 years of marriage and my demonstrating sound fiscal policy had led her to that conclusion. We worked hard and practiced contentment for over a decade. i.e. using the same furniture donated to me as a single man for the 12 years (yes, we now have nice new furniture). So, in a way, the HT is an outgrowth of much larger efforts...we were only able to afford the newer home, in which the HT resides, after working to pay off the old one...

But, this is an audio forum. Most people are in my category, able to spend some on audio but not gobs of dollars. My HT is proof you can "do your dream".
I still get a big grin on my face when I'm playing Xbox or listening to a great tune in the room. Worth it all!

A last thought on the room. Tuning a room is a giant advantage to the sound quality. In a living room or space which tuning cannot be done, the sound quality will suffer most likely. I'm just getting into room tuning, but can see immediately the advatages of investing in sound pannels, etc. It truly elevates the listening experience.

Blessings,
Doug

douglas_schroeder October 20, 2004 09:45

Your efforts are proof that...

"The Good Lord gives all birds their food, but he will not throw it in their nest"

Maybe you can work that line in at your next service.

Enjoy, Dave

davehrab October 19, 2004 19:19