November 2006 has seen the start of building a dedicated 2-channel listening room (a.k.a. "the man cave"). For the interest and benefit of others wishing to do likewise, I will try and relay details of the event that is expected to take 4-6weeks to complete.
* DESIGN
It all starts with a piece of paper and creative thinking of an audio designer which I found locally. Measurements were taken, consideration was given to room layout and planned speaker firing position. In my case I had two concrete block support pillars in the basement room and a lowish hanging support bean that sits atop the pillars. A structural engineer was called in to see about moving the posts and yes anything is possible with enough money . . . but the beams would stay put but be replaced by smaller footprint jack posts.
* ACOUSTICS:
The soundproofing would consist of Roxul acoustic and thermal insulation in the ceiling followed by Sonopan and 5/8" drywall to contain the sound. Special isolation clips for wall decoupling are used to isolate and 'float' the walls while rubber gasgets go between the concrete floor and wooden 2"*4" framing. J-molding, accoustic taping, 1/4" gasket for the ceiling/wall connection, air duct dampening material, insulated flex duct, external door with weather stripping were all used too.
* ELECTRICAL:
Four dedicated circuits will be installed: (i)a planned subwoofer on a 20 amp, 12 gauge Romex wired circuit, (ii) analog will also have a 20 amp, 12 gauge wire (in the event that my current 6watt/ch. amp gets replaced with a behemoth amp, (iii)digital will be a 15 amp, 14 gauge wired circuit, and (iv) a misc circuit for lights etc will also be 15 amp, 14 gauge. Isolated grounds will be created in the breaker box and plastic not metal recepticle boxes will be used to ensure only 1 end of the circuit is grounded (grounding both ends will cause the wire to act like an antenna!).
Planned future purchases include:
* Apple Mac Mini with silent hard drive and external RAID 1 disc storage for musical files
* Metric Halo LIO-8 Pro DAC
* Parametric EQ within the Metric Halo to tame the lowest bass mode peaks
I hired a small firm to design a dedicated music room in my unfinished basement which was no small feat. A contractor was hired to build it to spec and it was finished in January 2007.
Hemi-Cylindrical Diffuser / Bass Trap for Front Wall
A DIY hemi-cylindrical (poly) diffuser that doubles as a bass trap having OC701 fiberglass within its cavity. It's a 160degree arc from a 48" diameter Sonotube with red oak veneer on the exterior. The hard exterior diffuses mid/high frequencies in about a 110degree arc. With a total thickness of 30 inches, the hemi will absorb down to about 65Hz [1130/((30*7)/12)=64.6]
Front Wall Corner Bass Traps
A pair of DIY hemi-cylindrical (poly) diffuers that double as bass traps are in each corner. Eash is a 100 degree arc from a 48" diameter Sonotube with OC701 fiberglass in its cavity. They're covered with black speaker cloth to visually dissapear into the black coloured front wall. The total depth is 39" (27" radius + 12" air space) which absorbs down to about 49Hz. All hemi-diffusers can be pulled away from the wall to whatever depth is needed so as to tailor the low-end absorption.
Side Wall Reflecting Panels DIY
I built 3 reflecting baffles for each side wall. They are 3/4inches thick and run about 12feet long. Each baffle can be opened to any angle between 0 - 90 degrees. Right now the bottom baffle is open 30 degrees so that ear-level reflections are sent upwards to the ceiling diffusers, whereas the middle and top baffles are both open 20 degrees. The bottom baffle has a pair of GIK D1 QRD-like diffusers at each side wall's first two reflection points to help widen the apparent sound source width.
Skyline Diffuser for Rear Side Wall Treatment
A DIY Skyline diffuser for the rear right side wall. Uses 8 different cell depths in 1.5" increments with a maximum cell depth of 10.5". Being conservative, 10.5" is 50% of a 645Hz frequency which it will very effectively diffuse down to and likey another 0.5-1 octave lower. * Prime Number used = 547 * Primitive Root = 2 * 26 Columns * 21 Rows * 501 individual blocks of wood!
Hemi-Cylindrical Diffuser/Bass Trap for Rear Wall
Another two DIY Hemi-Cylindrical (poly) diffusers - one per back wall corner - to diffuse mid/high frequencies and absorb low frequencies as its interior is stuffed with OC701 fiberglass. Dynamat Xtreme (for car doors) was put on the hemi's inside to help reduce resonances and add stiffness. It's a 130 degree arc from a 48" diameter Sonotube.
GIK D1 QRD-like Diffusers for rear wall
6 are placed on the back wall (3 columns of 2) in front of 3 GIK Monster bass staps.
GIK Acoustics Monster Bass Traps for rear wall
3 total: Used on the back wall.
RPG Skyline (HP) Diffusers for Ceiling Treatment
9 Total: from speaker plane forward to listening chair.
RPG Skyline (LP) Diffusers for Ceiling Treatment
3 in Total: used on the dropped part of the ceiling between the front of the left speaker and the listening chair.
George Stantscheff Lightspeed Passive Attenuator
Passive attenuator that uses the special LDR (light dependant resistor) which has the ability to change it's resistance according to how much light LED (light emitting diode) is shone on it, hence it can control the volume without any mechanical contacts needed in the signal path. www.lightspeedattenuator.com
Art Audio PX-25
Fantastic sounding and very powerful despite being a 6 watt/ch. SET amp. With the KR Audio PX25 tubes and Sophia Electric 274B tubes and NOS input tubes.
FAB Audio Model 1
A 2.5 way with 1" tweeter and twin 10" drivers. High efficiency speakers (97dB).
Rythmik Audio F15
Two servo controlled subs each with a 15" driver and 370watts Class A/B each sub. Wonderfully musical.
Foundation Research LC-1
This is a bi-directional line conditioner filter and Cardas power cord all in one for the Audio Aero CD player.
TG Audio Lab HSR high purity silver interconnect
1.5 meter shielded
TG Audio Lab Speaker wire - silver
8 foot with spade ends
Audience PowerChord (4 foot)
4 foot power cord for Art Audio PX25 amp.
Dayton Audio OmniMic
Precision audio measurement system.
Sennheiser HD-600
headphones
StudioTech Component Cabinet U-22T
A rosewood cabinet with ventilation slots on the side, six shelves, cool looking doors and great WAF.
Wattgate 381 Ag AC Duplex Outlet
Audiophile grade AC repectacle. I bought two Wattgate 381's to be used on dedicated digital and analog circuits.
Hey thanks Skushino. Acoustical treatments are not easy to integrate gracefully into the listening room, especially when they are thick, deep, long, and high in order to really be effective down to the transition zone.
I like your most interesting setup. Have you room treatments?
Hi Kevin- looks like a wonderful listening room! Your's is the rare treated room that integrates in an aesthetically satisfying way. Thanks for the inspiration!
I've posted the newest pictures on my system page, they're the last two. You can see the hinges on the panels so that the wooden panels open out towards the wall behind the speakers. There are 1" absorbing duct panels on the back that you can't see.
I sold my Skylines to a fellow Audiogoner right away and then proceeded to buy two 2'x3'x2" absorption panels. I just received them Thursday.
I found that having the wooden panels leaning up against the wall expanded the soundstage. Craig thought that the effect might be more than just because the wooden panels happened to be there, but because the panels were leaning and creating a room that had non-parallel walls like you've done on your sidewalls.
He then suggested trying the wooden panels angled different ways with some absorption mounted behind the panels like you also did. That worked well, so I mounted the wooden panels on hinges so that I could vary the angle like you did too.
When I was preparing to mount the absorbing duct board to the back of the wooden panels, I had them sitting in front of the panels and noticed that the effect was even better in my room. I mounted the duct board behind the wooden panels and ordered two 2'x3'x2" absorption panels to mount on the front of the wooden panels too.
I mounted them yesterday and they work really well. I'll post pictures in a few days on my system page.
You were right about the Skylines needing room to diffuse properly. I needed the 4" Skyline LP but RPG has discontinued them, so I ordered the regular Skyline.
With my head right next to the wall, the regular Skyline didn't work. If you happen to know of anyone needing the regular Skyline, I've placed the pair on Audiogon to sell.
I could return them, but by the time I ship them back to RPG and pay the restocking fee, I'll come out a little better just selling them.
Hi Chuck, Thanks for your comments / questions above.
My RPG Skylines are held up on the ceiling using none other than good old velcro. I used roofing tacks to hold the velcro onto the ceiling drywall and a tack on the velcro attached to the Skyline. Been up for several years now and never had one fall . . . yet. ;)
Regarding the Skylines, you need to sit about 30" away from them so keep that in mind as you try them up above your head or in front of your chair on the ceiling. I wouldn't try just a single Skyline on the wall behind your chair - try at least 2 units wide * 2 units high and be sure to sit ~30" from them. They should attenuate (via diffusion) from about 970Hz and upwards thereby allowing you to hear more of the direct sounds and more details when placed behind you. The above Hz and sitting distance is for the longer version (i.e. 7" cell depth) not the shorter version.
Alternatively, try placing them on the side walls for the 1st reflection of the farthest speaker (e.g. place Skyline on left wall for right speaker's 1st reflection).
Lastly, try making your absorbing panels a minimum of 6" thick with an air space so that they don't act as a low-pass filter essentially eq'ing out just the high frequencies and deadening the sound.
I've added the four absoption panels in my room that helped out tremendously. But when I received the RPG Skylines, placing the one behind my head didn't work as it had when Craig brought his over.
I can't remember, so I don't know if he had the Skline LP that worked well, but is no longer in production, or if the absorption panels in place instead of the pillows when he came over made the difference.
With the Skyline behind my head, the sound has really deaded. Now I'm trying to see how I can place them on the ceiling over my head. Are your's glued to the ceiling, or do you have a frame that they are sitting in, like a suspended ceiling grid?
hi Kevin. I think you are right about the isolation clips. From what Cascade Audio told me, they primarily isolate but also improve in-room bass response.
Our basement was unfinished, so symmetry in design is a given.
As for acoustic treatments, time will tell. We have some other tricks that should theoretically limit their usel. The multiplicity of opinions on room design is mind boggling.
The room is about 4-6 weeks out. A system thread will follow.
Out of curiosity, have you played with any of the "acoustic resonator" products?
Hi Agear, Thanks for stopping by my thread and for your kind comments. Other than isolation as you pointed out as likely being the main purpose of 'floating' the walls/ceiling, I would have to think (althought I haven't tested it per se) that the fact that the walls can move back and forth, that that fact alone would add some element of low freq abosorption. I don't know what the resonate frequency of drywall is, or how the freq may change when double layered (I'd have to guess that the added mass would lower the resonant frequency).
My goal in using the isolation clips to float the walls was to prevent sound from leaving the room and traveling up through the rest of the house; I'm not sure that it works equally well in the reverse - preventing sounds from entering the room, but it may. Admittedly, sound isolation isn't something I've studied much.
I would advise you to try and make your room as symetrical around the length axis as possible to allow you the max flexibility of speaker/chair positioning. I've tried several speaker positional setups and the less-than-perfect symetry of my room (i.e. bulkhead on one side of the ceiling and two support posts) is a limitiing factor.
Lastly, be prepared for a God awful sounding room with 5 bare surfaces despite good gear, so acoustical treatments are a must-have, in my opinion. Good luck. Please post your system so I/we can see how you're making out with the construction etc.
Holy crap Kevin. You put a lot of energy and time into your room. Bravo. My wife and I are finishing the basement, and thus I too have a room in the works. Other than sound proofing, what sonic benefits did you reap from using the clip/isolation system? I am floating several walls and the ceiling using double 5/8 dry wall green glued together attached to RSIC-1 clips.
Hi Bmwmcab - thanks for the kind words. The room really is 50% of the sound (or there abouts) so I have spent as much time learning and testing as others do by swapping equipment in and out of their systems on a regular basis.
The speakers were built in Toronto by a now defunct small company, but they are very good and tonaly neutral.
Hope to an update to your system components and room pictures soon.
Kevinzoe, You setup and room is awesome!! I went through the thread and found 1 thing that I have in common with you. I too sit at an equilateral triangle with 90" on each of the 3 sides :-) I really envy you for your room. With a room (and treatments) like that I believe even a sub $1000 system will sound very good. I really like passives. It is not as if I have heard all the active preamps. But getting off the grid make it sound more "pure". I see that you you use Lightspeed. What preamp has it replaced?
Thanks! I don't understand the removal of the email feature however it's not my website so they set the rules. I've responded in full on my system thread. Happy Listening!
Hi Zephyr34069, Thanks kindly for your compliments. While no expert, I'd be pleased to share my experiences with you and it's likely better done over on your system thread. It seems that Audiogon has removed the ability for members to email each other, perhaps as a way of promoting thread and blog contributions as a way of increasing their website stickiness . . . Let's 'chat' on your system thread.
Kevin: This is one hell of a system and room; I'd like to know your impressions and experience with room testing and tuning and how you are liking the RPGs and your equipment in general...where are you located?
Lapaierre - thanks for the heads up on the Yellowjacker's "Blue Hats." My twins (i.e.subs) know many Brian Bromberg CDs - I'm a big fan, and other bassists too (Jaco Pastorius, Marcus Miller, Alain Caron, John Clayton, John Patitucci, Ray Brown, Charlie Haden, Dean Peer, Christian McBride, and others).
Acoustical Measurement Tools: check out FuzzMeasure http://www.supermegaultragroovy.com/products/FuzzMeasure/
Back Wall: glad to hear that you don't have to sit right against the back wall. Once you have your Mac-based acoustical measurement tool you'll have to experiment with speaker and seating positional changes.
Answer: my listening distance from seat to each speaker is 90" which is the same distance between each speaker, so an equilateral triangle.
"Blue Hats" by Yellowjackets worthy of a spin. Brain Bromberg has 300 year old Matteo Guersam Italian upright bass- tell the twins.
Back Wall Installing bass trap on the back door shouldn't be a problem. At first I thought I had very little clearance because the door opens to the side of the wall. Stands would be a nuisance in front of the back wall. Regarding my listening position, I can move the chair out from the wall a foot or more.
Acoustic Tools Continue searching for OS tools for Macintosh
Question What is the distance from FAB Audio Model 1 speakers to your listening chair?
Hi Lapierre, You a Yellowjackets fan? I have their "Greenhouse" CD on GRP Digital Master; nice stuff! Try Brian Bromberg . . .
Your Back Wall: * I think GIK and I were saying the same thing which was to put the Monster trap on a stand in front of the bifold doors. You could try putting a Monster trap inside the closet and listening with and without the bifold doors open. * why can't you put a Monster trap on the back of the door - no way to affix it? Try a movable stand. * Ideally you don't want to sit right against the back wall as bass is too pronounced - even with traps. Can you sit 33%-38% of the room's length away from the back wall and put your speakers at 33%-38% out from the front wall? Does that give you enough distance between speakers and listening chair, even if it's 'near field' listening?
Acoustical Measurements: * OmniMic is a Window's based program. Not been ported to Mac OS as far as I know. * search Google for Mac OS tools.
Your wrote "The new listening position could potentially be 10'. What is the distance from speakers to listening chair?" Sorry but I'm not following you . . . Do you mean you're now sitting 10ft out from the back wall? What's the room length again?
Subwoofers: * my system pic is a bit outdated as I've moved the subs for smoother bass and upwards tilting freq response as freq diminishes (e.g. house curve) to align with equal-loudness curves. * my left sub is on the side wall just slightly behind my listening place. I've used a keybourd stand to elevate it 4ft off the floor and it significantly reduces a hight based null. I'm using a 80Hz 24dB low pass filter setting. * my right sub in on the right side wall across the room from the left sub and uses a 120Hz 12dB low pass filter with a lower volume setting than the left sub.
Kevin not 100% sure about hanging bass trap on backside of the door. Wait and see after measuring room performance. For optimal listening the door will remain closed for privacy.
After re-reading my notes from GIK they suggested bass trap on a stand in front of the bifold doors. That want really work functionally and visually. However, further investigation suggest hanging the bass trap ensuring alignment with the other bass traps on the wall. So on the back wall I should be able to hang 3 bass trap panels.
Also, I taped the speaker positions and seating and determined the chair should be right up against the back wall. The new listening position could potentially be 10'. What is the distance from speakers to listening chair?
Correct on adding the second sub--even bass production. Notice the twins are almost side facing in your pictures.
Need to determine if Dayton Audio software is compatible with Apple OS.
