There are some seriously good current production tubes.
I would venture to say that in terms of quality, we are close to the 60's. I have done listening tests with current prod 12AX7's and they were better than the vaunted NOS siemens etc. Doug has them in his preamp right now. I have no problem recommending current production tubes that have been tested at the voltages that they will be used.
eg. in my amp - I get startling results with SED, Golden Dragon (Shuguang). I recently took it to a listening test with the chinese EL34's in it and people were amazed.
If you have a good basic circuit, you will get a certain level of result with basically any tube that conforms to specs. Then,its a matter of slight tweaking.
HTH

ndoshi December 25, 2005 01:22

Thanks Nick for the clarification, that's a tube I haven't heard. I guess if you're going to that trouble you must prefer it to the current SED EL34?...Alex

zaikesman December 24, 2005 05:57

correction on tubes (if I may), the tubes that Doug has are the 1980's Reflektor/Sovtek 6CA7. They look very close the the sylvania 6CA7. Not available anymore.

ndoshi December 23, 2005 22:02

Thanks for the tip! Guess it was silly to post tube types as part of the system, unless I learn to get better at updating.

dougdeacon December 23, 2005 14:40

Oh OK, the link for your amp up at the top still states Sovtek/Reflektor 6CA7's. If what you've got are the newer Reflektor Svetlanas then they're made in the same factory as the Sovteks, and you may want to try out the "Winged-C" SED EL34's which are made at the St. Petersburg factory where the old Svetlanas were made (only the US names have changed). Those tubes were certainly the best EL34 I found at the time, though some of the Reflektor power tube product may have improved since then, as evidenced by the Electro-Harmonix KT88's I'm using now.

zaikesman December 21, 2005 23:05

We're using Svetlanas. Sovteks were okay. Haven't heard the Teslas AFAIK. I'll have to ask/dig around to find out what else we've heard.

When we picked the amp up Nick spent an hour or so tube rolling for us. He gave us two quads of Svets, since they were the most neutral of what we heard.

dougdeacon December 21, 2005 22:13

Sounds like there's no reason not to make it balanced.

BTW, back when I was running my CJ amp that used EL34's I tried three kinds and settled on the SED (then Svetlana) as the best-sounding, followed by the Tesla (which wasn't acceptably reliable) and then the Sovtek. Is the version you're using now the new Electro-Harmonix 6CA7 (which I haven't heard) or the regular Sovtek EL34, and what else have you tried?

zaikesman December 20, 2005 21:29

Alex,

Sorry for the slow response. Apparently using an iso transformer in this way COULD provide balanced power. It depends on the transformer and how it's tapped off.

No web info on Nick's products. He only builds a handful per year.

dougdeacon December 20, 2005 19:34

Doug, will doing so also provide balanced AC? And BTW, is there any web info up about your friend's amp products? (PS -- I've never been able to bring myself to want to unload my PV-8 either, tho I have a hard time seeing its sculptural value...)

zaikesman December 13, 2005 18:02

Hi guys,
Thanks for the kind words and advice. You were right about the PV11 of course. It's the kind of component that does nothing obviously wrong. One might happily live with it forever without ever knowing how much more is available.

Of course I had to say that in case we decide to sell it! ;-) That may actually be hard given the sentimental attachment that comes with 14 years of happy ownership. I may just display it on the coffee table as a sculpture.

Nick's preamp seems to have both unlimited dynamics and a bottomless noise floor. Last night it scared the bejesus out of the cats, and me, when the two giants came on stage during 'Das Rheingold' (Solti). It wasn't just the house-shaking impact of the huge drum hits and fortissimo Wagner tubas. It was the drums' lifelike texture and the individuality of different tuba-ists in the midst of all that racket. I played three sides and at all times we could hear the footsteps of the singers when they changed position. When a character's voice moved without audible footsteps it was obvious they'd spliced multiple takes. I don't know if I really wanted to hear that level of detail, but there it is.

At the opposite extreme, this morning it brought the strings and box of Ralph Kirkpatrick's clavichord to life in a very quiet room. No instrument is more delicate than a clavichord. The loudest sound it can make is quieter than a normal conversation. To get the texture right at realistically low volumes is terribly difficult.

Part of the credit goes to Nick's amp of course, which we've had for some time. In contrast to what you may read on other threads, in our system with our speakers it walked all over a Berning ZH-270. No contest.

Alex,
Sorry to hear we've both made similar discoveries about various surge protectors. The biggest hit we've taken was not from lightning. It came when a transformer blew on a nearby power pole (if you think Wagner's loud...). That fried our new stove's electronics, but the Surgex saved the sound system. Nick suggested we try a 3-5KVA isolation transformer on the line. I'm looking into those.

dougdeacon December 13, 2005 17:11

Doug: I had a similar epiphany with my power conditioners not too long ago. Don't know why I never fooled around with this when I first added the Exact Power in front of the Power Wedge Ultra, but when I finally got around to experimenting with bypassing the PW where the monoblock power amps are concerned and running them directly off the EP, the PW was revealed as having choked off the sound to a not inconsiderable degree, despite the manufacturer's claim that it handily accomodates high-powered amps. Fortunately, the PW still benefits the source components beyond just plugging them straight into the EP as well (that balanced AC, which wasn't provided on the power amp outlets anyway). But the EP + PW is all the lightning strike protection I have -- I normally unplug the system altogether when thunderstorms are near.

zaikesman December 11, 2005 21:47

Congratulations on the preamp upgrade, Doug! Sounds like a great move for your system.
.

rushton December 11, 2005 21:21

Hi Nate,

I hope your new rig is finally settling in. You win the Patient-Audiophile-of-the-Year award.

I keep meaning to take some pix but I can't do it now. Paul's spinning Crystal Clear Records Sonic Fireworks Vol. II. The air's shaking too much to hold a camera steady. ;-)

To tell the truth, Nick's preamp and amp don't look like much. They're massively overbuilt but totally un-chic, quite the opposite of me! ;-)

dougdeacon December 11, 2005 20:56

Doug, where are the pictures??? I wanna see this setup!

PS thank for the help with the TriPlanar setup.

nrchy December 11, 2005 13:44

System edited: Just posted our new preamp, which we've had for about a week. Enjoyable as the PV11 was, the new preamp just destroys it. We are in audio heaven.

Thanks to a balanced and isolated line input even CD's sound like real music. The increase in low level detail from LP's is remarkable.

The biggest overall change from the c-j is the elimination of the warmth and bloat that Rushton and Zaikesman were discussing (above). Nick's preamp is neutral, neutral, neutral. It's so well damped that Herbie's Tube Dampers aren't needed, they actually do more harm than good.

The music is glorious. Me happy!

dougdeacon December 10, 2005 21:24

System edited: Just noted that our Surgex surge protector (same topology as Brickwall or ZeroSurge) does in fact limit dynamic headroom. Our power and weather are too unstable not to have very robust surge protection, so we'll be seeking something to replace it.

Sigh... it never ends does it?

dougdeacon December 10, 2005 20:37

Ken,

As you can tell, I tend to forget to check my system page for long stretches. Thanks for the kind words and yes, the UNIverse is that much better. Here's hoping you get to hear (or own) one soon.

We're going to be posting our old CDP and amp for sale soon, so I guess I'll have to learn how to post photos. Maybe I can get a few of the system while I'm at it.

Cheers,
Doug

dougdeacon September 01, 2005 20:22

Hey Doug!

Just looking in on your system post as its been awhile. You added the Universe since I last posted you. Super! I hear amazing things said of it. After having my FujiS for about a year now and hearing Audiofankj's Nottingham/Airy3 S rig at my home..I cant concieve that the Uni could be much better, and yet all who own it say it is indeed! Im sure Ill have to get it when im ready to upgrade!

Well..once again your set up is first class and maybe we'll get you to post some pics before too long ;)...Best to you--Ken

kehut August 14, 2005 00:22

Sirspeedy,

Thank you for reminding me about the Herbie's. I should have mentioned we have two HALO's on each tube in the PV11. I quite agree with your favorable impression of them.

Doug

dougdeacon May 22, 2005 23:04

Hi DOUG,hope all is well.Just wanted to share a very recent tube/voicing experience,in lieu of your comments.This may interest you.

I have a 3 tube phono section that is extremely sensitive to tube type,as well as the particular damping employed to tubes.I have a pal that has been harping,for the last 3 yrs.,for me to try the Herbie's Audio Halo dampers.These are the same as Salvatore had liked.I have tried about 4 or 5 diff types,and liked the 3M rings.Reluctantly,I bought a set of the Halo dampers,and put them in SATURDAY.I know this may seem like the typical hobbyist hype,it is,but,I was shocked by the improvement,and I have super-low-noise tubes(matched out)to begin with.

What the far superior Halo damper allowed me to do(since it was so superior in it's effective damping(of noise I did not know was present),was to allow me to revoice the tuning of the arm damping/vta/downforce.I could never get it to my total satisfaction prior to these little gems.Now,the improvement has allowed a finer delicacy and purity to harmonic structures,that I had always attributed to my arm's rendering of a fine grain,I had always thought it was a slight bearing friction,but,apparently it was a mild tube related etch.Boy,am I thrilled!!

Just some fuel for your consideration.Hope all is well!!

[email protected] May 22, 2005 20:42

Hi Gregory earl,

We have had a couple of microphonic tubes over the years, but our current set (which seems to want to last forever) has given us only occasional problems. Unfortunately, we've had them in there so long I forget what they are! :-(

I'll poke around a bit and ask my tube guru buddy what he recommends. He's building me a custom preamp so he'll know. (Same guy who built the amp I just posted to the system.)

Doug

dougdeacon May 21, 2005 23:54

System edited: Last month our new tube power amp replaced the SS c-j MF2500A. The new amp is a custom/proprietary EL34-based design made by a friend. He uses only the highest quality components, with particular attention to the power supply and tube regulator circuits. This results in a tube amp of enormous and surprising power reserves, yet with little or no tube warmth or bloat (at least with the Sovteks). We demoed his personal amp in our system before ordering one for ourselves and were quite amazed at the improvement. No other tube amp we've heard compares with this one, and other people he's built them for have been equally impressed.

dougdeacon May 21, 2005 23:50

I've got one two? I meant to say I've got one two three. :}

gregory_earl May 15, 2005 02:36

Hi Doug. I see you have a PV-11. I've got one two and love it dearly but I have had some trouble with some 12au7`s due to microphonics. Have you encounted this? What tubes have you or are you using?

gregory_earl May 14, 2005 22:00

System edited: Added the ZYX Universe, easily the finest cartridge we've heard. It completely outclasses the Airy3, which in turn outclassed a Koetsu RSP and Shelter 901. This cartridge takes the natural reproduction of music from modulated vinyl grooves to a level we never imagined. Five people besides ourselves have heard it. Between them they've heard various top models from Koetsu, Miyabi, Dynavector, Lyra, Benz and others. So far it's unanimous: the UNIverse bests them all. Hardly scientific of course, but that's what I know so far. We've played it on two tonearms in three systems, both tube and SS, using Sonus Fabers, B&W's and Sound Labs. In every case it has not just excelled but astonished. The UNIverse lists for $7K and sells for nearly $5K, yet four of the five people who've heard ours are ordering one for themselves. The fifth would if he could. It offers the superb groove tracing and neutrality of the Airys, but seems orders of magnitude faster. "Faster" doesn't seem like much, but I don't know how else to describe how it does what it does. Resin on strings? No problem. Vibrato on a singer's voice? To a degree I've never heard short of live. Dynamics? Staggering, whether you want the micro-dynamics of a held sax note or the macro-dynamics of a bass drum or rock band. Imaging? 3-D and solid. Integration? Seamless. Soundstaging? Unique in our experience: the front of the sound stage, audible on every other cartridge we've heard as a wall seperating the music from you, simply does not exist. The UNIverse places you and the physically palpable musicians in the same sonic space. In the month we've had it seven experienced listeners have been unable to name a single flaw or omission in its musical performances. There must be something, somewhere, of course. Nothing's perfect. But so far we haven't found it.

dougdeacon December 27, 2004 16:01