System edited: Added some new pics. The Garrard/Triplanar combo in new and sounds incredible........... It was a lot of work but I'm really happy with the results. I feel it ourperforms my previous VPI Aries/JMW set-up.

cmo October 24, 2006 22:56

Rolloff,

Thanks for the compliments. The night light is vintage '50's bar decor and one of my favorite pieces. As for my system journey; I think I am on the right track at this point. I love the electrostat sound, but the low efficiency/need for lot's of power was getting to be a problem for me (read lot's of power tubes + Texas summers= pure hell). I think these speakers outperform the stats in most if not all areas too. I would still like to experiment a bit with other amps and maybe try the Omega upgrade someday too.

Jayctoy,

I wouldn't mind another (new) CD player problem is; I haven't been able to find one that betters the Theta for less than about 7K. I have listened to the ARC CD3II, New Cary, Linn Unidisk, Sony SCD1, etc. The only thing I found worth my while (and in my price range) was the new Ayre U2 player.......... It is the real deal. The Theta is underrated and IMHO a world beater. Thanks for the thoughts on the system.

Chris

cmo April 23, 2006 11:00

Cmo I like your system, except the cd player.How
about tube player?

jayctoy April 22, 2006 21:51

Nice progression. I've always wantred to take the journey towards low powered SETs and horns. The night light is a highlight but the table for the Aries is superb looking as well. Nice job.

Dave

rolloff April 05, 2006 00:22

Way to go Chris, the Duo's are awesome loudspeakers! Great looking system too. I have a friend who has a pair modified with some local in store wire. He is running a GRAFF GM20 OTL amp and a Viva Linia pre amp. This is one of the best combos I've heard with Avantgarde, Vac's 30/30 300B is another punchy and sweet sounding amp all though a little noisy. I now that's a small room but I think the Duo's work best and sound the most LIVE with little or no room treatments, you get more of a delay effect. Something you may want to try in the future is to add some small but high quality back channel speakers, in stereo NOT 5.1 suround. At about half of the volume of your main system you get this amazing monster deep soundstage and an even more prenounced live affect. Here is a cheap tweak, put some tricycle innertubes under ALL of your components, even the turntable[under a granite base] and listen to what happens!

Enjoy the music,

Rio

analogman9 April 04, 2006 21:55

Scott,

Thanks for the compliments. You are exactly right. Although my 'stats were very revealing and I (still) think great speakers, I wasn't ready for the jump in resolution and sensitivity. I had just bought the Aesthetix Callisto before I decided to go for the Duo's and was afriad it would be noisy. Thank god it's totally quiet. Every little tweek has made some kind of difference..... From Valid Points to my home made lead boxes. I really love this Horn/SET thing. Even though there is no way I could afford it right now, I sure would love to hear a pair of the new Meta Duo's.

Onemug....... Yea, she really helps in dark room..... Kinda warm on a cold night too. Thanks for the compliments on the system too.

Chris

cmo March 24, 2006 20:45

Chris, your upper left hand picture is one of the best CD tweaks I've ever seen. I guess I mean two of the best tweaks. Nice system.

onemug March 23, 2006 22:35

Hi Chris - nice system. We've been traveling a similar road, evolving from high-power to SETs and horns. In my experience, it was challenging because the system is way more sensitive to user input, compared to the old system. I thought the old system was sensitive, but horns take it to another level. I've had to rethink many of my objectives and assumptions about integrating a system. After a year, I'm finally progressing to where I'd hope.

Still love your night lite!

Best,
Scott

skushino March 23, 2006 17:42

Chris- the 'kickdrum conundrum' is not a question of 'tightness,' but instead, a HUGE dynamic difference. In the little club I frequent, I sit maybe 40 feet from the stage in a room which has normal (read: low) ceilings and not much in the way of acoustical treatment other than warm bodies (say 85 people when packed). The kickdrum, the moment it is 'kicked' by the drummer during warmup, dispells any notion for me that a stereo system can reproduce such a sound with the same THWACK
that happens in real life. Not just a question of tight, or deep, or loud, but all that and a sort of unlimited power that goes way beyond the normal level of 'loud' for a second- what I guess is the 'peak' level you probably don't see on anything but a special meter- I'm out of my league here- but it is instantly dynamic and the stereo just doesn't do that. Jim Smith said much of it may have to do with the constraints of the record- how it has to be limited when cut, and the noise floor for the rest of the instruments on the record, which if laid down at their actual levels relative to the drum sound, would be way too soft. Perhaps this is also what people mean when they say the woofers in the Duo are not up to the rest of the speaker. Don't get me wrong- I am enjoying the hell out of them, and in fairness, they probably aren't fully broken in yet. But, I went in this direction to try to capture some of the 'realness' of live performance and this is the weak point in the set up so far. (If I were satisfied with good 'hi-fi' sound, I'm sure these could be made to do that extremely well- again, not the test, right?)

whart March 17, 2006 18:04

Whart,

I bought my Avantgardes from my local dealer who was the AVG sales rep for the western USA....... They were his personal speakers and are pretty tricked out. The jumpers are Golden Ref......... although, I'm not sure what he used internally (he just said Cardas wire). He told me that he and Jim Smith experimented with a lot of different wire and this was what they thought sounded best. It was the basis for later Cardas wires being put into the equation. I have mine bi-wired directly to both the mid and tweeter. I took out one leg of the harness this way.

When I was auditioning the Duo's at home I tried a few different amps..... Nagra VPA, BAT, and Wytech Onyx. The best were the Nagra VPA's, but they were a bit noisy and had too much power really. I got a good deal on the Art Audio from Joe Fratus and did the deal sight (ears)unseen. It is by far the best amp out of the ones I have heard...... Having said that I would sure like to, at least, experiment with some other stuff.

I am a little puzzled by the kick drum thing with your sound. Not that mine "really" sound like one's in the room next to you, but it does a pretty good job.... I don't know how you have things crossed over, but try setting the sub at 140Hz and see if that tightens things up. I have my volume set at about 1-2 O'clock...... and you're right it totally kicks ass.

I do miss the Logans for certain things.... They were a bit sweeter on some things and put up a HUGE soundstage. Overall they are still really good speakers IMO. The heat of 20+ tubes in the power amp just got to be too much for a Texas summer though.

My room is really nice, but sometimes I do wish it were bigger (never happy right). I am about 10 feet from my speakers and would love to be able to make it 15 of so.

Chris

cmo March 17, 2006 15:06

Chris- The Cardas jumper is that I am using was custom made from the Golden Reference cable, and is not the one that is normally sold for a few hundred dollars. The Audiopax amps are very, very nicely built, and seem to be made for the Avantgardes. I have little basis for comparsion since I have run no other amp on the Duos but them. (I have an old pair of Quad mono tube amps that would probably do the trick, but I haven't pressed them into service in a while).
Are you running the amp leads directly to the midhorn, and 'jumping' from there? That's the way Jim Smith advised me to hook them up.
Yep, those RealTraps are amazing- I suppose comparable results could be obtained with ASC Tube Traps and the like, but at greater expense. I have had the good fortune in the past to have some pretty good sounding rooms- one, many years ago, in a Brownstone we had in Brooklyn Heights- very high ceilings- real plaster and lathe walls and heavy duty old, wide plank floors. The room I use now is not a 'good' room acoustically- lots of weird ceiling angles, not a particularly high ceiling, and frankly, I could use a bigger space (it looks like your listening area is pretty 'nearfield') but this just proved how effective some basic room treatment can be. The thing I marvel at is how involving my records are now- the Crosby Quads were very
articulate, the image was pretty impressive and deep (I ran them well out into the room) and they had a honey-like quality that, while pleasing, did not resemble live music. (OK, on female vocal with minimal instrument back up, yes, astounding, but when things got dynamic the illusion got replaced by a small scale romantic painting of the event).
The horns kick some ass, whip up the electrons and rather than let you look in on the event, bring it home- the only thing I am still struggling with is convincing kickdrum. Just can't get the levels to approximate that- I go down the street to a little rock and roll club and hear bands all the time- the dynamic impact of a kick drum is really hard to duplicate at real life levels.
Good listening.

whart March 17, 2006 06:41

Whart,

That's crazy......... I am starting to think we are the same person and don't know it. The Realtraps made a huge difference in my room too (and I didn't really have too big of a problem to begin with). Like you say; more articulate bass, bigger deeper soundstage, etc.

I can't say what difference the Cardas jumpers have made for me as my speakers came with them. Although, I was able to totally remove one of them and wire directly the mid and tweeter with my Venustas. I really like the sounds I am getting these days. The room is not nearly as hot either.

How do you like you Audiopax? I wanted them but the price was a little too steep.

Chris

cmo March 16, 2006 21:46

Chris- I am sharing the same experience. My Crosby Quads stand idle, and my ARC Classic 60 collects dust for now- the Avantgarde Duos (got mine at the beginning of February) are just starting to break-in; the synergy with the Audiopax 88's I'm using is well documented by many. Some additional steps I have taken- Cardas Golden Reference jumpers- HUGE difference compared to the stock jumper cables, but very cumbersome to work with; also just finished installing alot of RealTrap Mondo Bass Traps, 4 corners, plus some mini-traps for mid/hi frequencies behind my listening position (which wall is covered by a Stewart film screen for the projection system). The difference in bass is most notable in creating some dimensionality down low (we hear audiophiles talk of 'air' around high frequencies, but what I'm hearing is best described by that word around the bass tones).
Aesthetically, your room has mine beat hands down. Love the instruments hanging. My room does double duty for the HT (although the systems are completely separate) and has placed some additional limits on layout, but I'm sure the overall comfort and appeal of your room contribute to your enjoyment of the system. Best.

whart March 16, 2006 18:28

System edited: WOW..... A lot of changes since my last update. What a journey; from a high power tub amp with 16 6550's and 200 wpc to an SET with 6 wpc. I replaced Martin Logan Prodigy's with Avantgarde Duo's. I am liking it a lot. Chris

cmo March 16, 2006 15:15

I have a Sonic Frontiers SFL1 sig in shipping as we speak and I cant wait!

chadnliz August 20, 2005 12:18

Matteus,

I think you are confused. I Use the Hovland from my TT to the phono pre and Venustas from phono pre to preamp. I am very happy with both.

Chadnliz,

I love what tubes do for my system and can't imagine not having them somewhere in the signal chain. To my ears they add a certain organic quality that is not present with SS. People will say that organic quality is distortion.......... whatever, it's what I like. It may go back to the fact that I am a professional musician and would rather eat nails than play my guitar through a SS amp (although comparing the two is kinda apples and oranges). Anyway, borrow a good tube pre and see what you think............ you may never go back.

Chris

cmo August 20, 2005 11:16

As a fellow Stat owner (Innersound Eros here) how does tube pre amps change the stat sound signature? I dont know if you can accuratly tell me because I am using SS power but still curious, nice gear!

chadnliz August 15, 2005 18:06

Hi CMO,

I see you use boht Venustas and Hovland MG2 as phonocable. How would you describe the sonical difference between both?

Thanks

renaat mattheus

mattheus August 13, 2005 19:06

Superb system. I've long been an Audio Research fan and an electrostat fan. Nice looking room also. Congrats!

sgr June 24, 2005 14:48

My "night light(s)" is a wonderful thing. Funny how she is always smiling too............. The ZYX replaced a Grado Reference Statement. The .5mv model. I really liked the Grado but the ZYX pretty much kills it.

Chris

cmo June 16, 2005 23:41

Nice, errr... "night light". And with all your LPs and CDs, you have a very nice media storage solution. Like you, I'm a fan of Purist wires. Which cartridge did your ZYX replace?
Scott

skushino June 15, 2005 22:05

System edited: Added a new ZYX cart and Hovland MG II phono cables about six months ago. A major leap forward in analog. I added some new pics too. Chris

cmo June 03, 2005 14:58

Thesaint

I wouldn't say I didn't like the MIT's. They sounded pretty good in fact. I thought the PADS were a step up though....... quieter, better tonality top to bottom.. just better in MY system.

I didn't notice your post until now, but if you haven't bought anything yet I would reccomend the Cable Co. You can borrow a few cables try them in your system and see what works best for you.

cmo February 13, 2005 23:23

What did and didn't you like about the MIT Magnum 2's? I am considering purchasing them.

thesaint519 January 02, 2005 23:43

I have never tried to biamp the system, but would still like to try it out. Unfortunately it would cost a ton of money and i don't think I could find an air conditioner big enough.

cmo March 13, 2004 12:41