Chris- the 'kickdrum conundrum' is not a question of 'tightness,' but instead, a HUGE dynamic difference. In the little club I frequent, I sit maybe 40 feet from the stage in a room which has normal (read: low) ceilings and not much in the way of acoustical treatment other than warm bodies (say 85 people when packed). The kickdrum, the moment it is 'kicked' by the drummer during warmup, dispells any notion for me that a stereo system can reproduce such a sound with the same THWACK
that happens in real life. Not just a question of tight, or deep, or loud, but all that and a sort of unlimited power that goes way beyond the normal level of 'loud' for a second- what I guess is the 'peak' level you probably don't see on anything but a special meter- I'm out of my league here- but it is instantly dynamic and the stereo just doesn't do that. Jim Smith said much of it may have to do with the constraints of the record- how it has to be limited when cut, and the noise floor for the rest of the instruments on the record, which if laid down at their actual levels relative to the drum sound, would be way too soft. Perhaps this is also what people mean when they say the woofers in the Duo are not up to the rest of the speaker. Don't get me wrong- I am enjoying the hell out of them, and in fairness, they probably aren't fully broken in yet. But, I went in this direction to try to capture some of the 'realness' of live performance and this is the weak point in the set up so far. (If I were satisfied with good 'hi-fi' sound, I'm sure these could be made to do that extremely well- again, not the test, right?)

whart March 18, 2006 00:04

Chris- The Cardas jumper is that I am using was custom made from the Golden Reference cable, and is not the one that is normally sold for a few hundred dollars. The Audiopax amps are very, very nicely built, and seem to be made for the Avantgardes. I have little basis for comparsion since I have run no other amp on the Duos but them. (I have an old pair of Quad mono tube amps that would probably do the trick, but I haven't pressed them into service in a while).
Are you running the amp leads directly to the midhorn, and 'jumping' from there? That's the way Jim Smith advised me to hook them up.
Yep, those RealTraps are amazing- I suppose comparable results could be obtained with ASC Tube Traps and the like, but at greater expense. I have had the good fortune in the past to have some pretty good sounding rooms- one, many years ago, in a Brownstone we had in Brooklyn Heights- very high ceilings- real plaster and lathe walls and heavy duty old, wide plank floors. The room I use now is not a 'good' room acoustically- lots of weird ceiling angles, not a particularly high ceiling, and frankly, I could use a bigger space (it looks like your listening area is pretty 'nearfield') but this just proved how effective some basic room treatment can be. The thing I marvel at is how involving my records are now- the Crosby Quads were very
articulate, the image was pretty impressive and deep (I ran them well out into the room) and they had a honey-like quality that, while pleasing, did not resemble live music. (OK, on female vocal with minimal instrument back up, yes, astounding, but when things got dynamic the illusion got replaced by a small scale romantic painting of the event).
The horns kick some ass, whip up the electrons and rather than let you look in on the event, bring it home- the only thing I am still struggling with is convincing kickdrum. Just can't get the levels to approximate that- I go down the street to a little rock and roll club and hear bands all the time- the dynamic impact of a kick drum is really hard to duplicate at real life levels.
Good listening.

whart March 17, 2006 12:41

Chris- I am sharing the same experience. My Crosby Quads stand idle, and my ARC Classic 60 collects dust for now- the Avantgarde Duos (got mine at the beginning of February) are just starting to break-in; the synergy with the Audiopax 88's I'm using is well documented by many. Some additional steps I have taken- Cardas Golden Reference jumpers- HUGE difference compared to the stock jumper cables, but very cumbersome to work with; also just finished installing alot of RealTrap Mondo Bass Traps, 4 corners, plus some mini-traps for mid/hi frequencies behind my listening position (which wall is covered by a Stewart film screen for the projection system). The difference in bass is most notable in creating some dimensionality down low (we hear audiophiles talk of 'air' around high frequencies, but what I'm hearing is best described by that word around the bass tones).
Aesthetically, your room has mine beat hands down. Love the instruments hanging. My room does double duty for the HT (although the systems are completely separate) and has placed some additional limits on layout, but I'm sure the overall comfort and appeal of your room contribute to your enjoyment of the system. Best.

whart March 17, 2006 00:28