I have a dedicated music room in our basement. It has been extensively treated acoustically with bass traps and diffusors in all the right places. This is the best listening room I've ever had. I listen 90+% of the time to classical music. This system does a great job of reproducing acoustic instruments. Violin, cello and piano timbres are rendered very realistically. System dynamics are outstanding. Recently added the Starkrimson class D monoblocks which are undergoing extensive listening trials.
Jafant - Yes, my Marantz SA-11S2 is still going strong at going on 14 years old. Still plays all CD's and SACD's I put in it. The display is dimmer than I remember it but, hey, its been "on" for most of its life. The other minor quibble is sometimes the drawer will open and close right away when I press the open button. After a few pushes, it will usually remain open so I can load a disc. Because of its age, I've been looking at possible replacements because who knows how much longer the SA11 will last and when productions of new SACD machines will be curtailed.
Mark, Very nicely setup small room and your equipment seems to be carefully selected after lot of consideration. we have moved to a house and I will have a dedicated room just like yours, except that the ceiling is 9 foot. Do you have any room treatments in place? How do you tame the bass? What about reflections from walls on your back? I am trying to get as much info as possible from fellow audiogoners so that I can "try and optimize" my room acoustics.
hi my name is stephen, i am looking into buying the same speakers in the same color grill. if you ever get a chance to take a current picture of them and e-mail to me that would be great!!! my e-mail address is [email protected]. how long have you had them and what wood option did you get? THANKS IN ADVANCE AND HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!
Scotandholly - thanks for the kind words. We had the basement finished when we moved in some time ago and I wish I could have devoted more real estate to the music room. Alas, it is what it is. System sounds very good. The Snappers are a nice addition. I think I am really done for a while (save for some occaisional tube rolling).
System edited: Replaced the Vincent hybrid monoblocks with the all-tubes Manley Labs Snappers. I missed the virtues of having all tubes in the amp chain. The Vincent's are excellent examples of ss/tube hybrid topology but the extra sweetness and unfettered dynamics of the EL34-based Manley's are something to hear. Wonderful!
Ckoffend, Yes, that's the way to do it. Poor man's multichannel. It really works well for me - I could never go back to conventional 2-channel. In my case, I don't use a center speaker, just the two rear surround speakers. I send the extra preamp output to the AVR (into the "cd" input) and just use the internal AVR processor to create the surround field for the rear speakers which are connected to the AVR's surround rear speaker outputs. I can adjust the rear delays via the AVR. Good luck and have fun experimenting.
You approach to 2-channel with surround intrigues me as I have never given this any serious consideration. I have a 2-channel preamp with HT pass through and an HT pre/pro.
Having probably done some research into this before you proceeded, can you tell me if I am on the right track?
Send signal from my 2-channel preamp additional output to my pre/pro as another general analog input. Program my pre/pro to treat this component/selection to play with only rear or surround speakers and find and set a delay (my prepro sets delay based on distance from the listening position - so I could play around with that distance based on either what it actually is or change the distance to a result that I like the sound of).
I will need to check if my pre/pro allows me to designate the number of speakers and which speakers by input. Since my surround speakers and my center channel speakers use the same 3 channel amp.
This won't give me just the out of phase information, but will send the whole ball of wax to my pre/pro, then you recommend just playing around with surround programs to figure out what works best?
No, I still have it. Probably will hang on to it - there weren't a lot of those units produced and it may become a collector's item some day. I've already had a couple people ask me if it is for sale.
Hi JM, First of all, thanks for your kinds words. On the whole surround sound thing, I had been using a Hafler-type of surround to supplement my two-channel system for over 25 years. I agree that once one experiences that, you can't go back to straight 2-channel. Until recently, I had used the Phasearound box to route the out-of-phase signal to a power amp and then to the two rear speakers. The rears are to my left and right from the listening position and just outside the front left/rights.
I have recently replaced the Phasearound with a cheap Insignia AVR. Reason - because with the AVR I can achieve the proper delay to get a more realistic sound field. So I agree with you completely that having the delay is important to creating the best surround effect from a 2-channel source. I was not able to have delay with the Phasearound in the system.
I run a second pre-out (unbalanced) from my Cary SLP-05 to the AVR and then use its rear channel speaker outputs with one of the simulated surround programs from the AVR and I've set the delay to 20 ms. I find that a center channel speaker is not required to get a very nice 3-D sound stage with this set-up. My room is music-only so I have not tried this for movies (we have a separate home theater room where I don't have as high of standards for the sound).
Lastly, I would highly recommend the Cary SLP-05 pre-amp. It is a fanastic piece of audio gear and I think would make a great addition to your system. I hope I've addressed all your questions. Peace, Mark
I am looking at either of the following combinations for starters:
Cary SLP 03 and a 2 channel BAT VK6200 (2 channels added later for "surround"), OR the Cary SLP 05 and a Parasound Halo A21 to go with my Martin Logan Summit speakers (Hybrid electrostatic panel with two 10" woofers, going down to 24 Hz). I would love a ARC REF3 but at $10K without any discount, there wouldn't any cash left over to do anything else for a very LONG time!
I too got introduced to surrond along time ago and could never forget that experience. A slight time delay from a pair of cheap rear speakers opened up the front sound stage making the music experience very real. No center channel or extra rear/side speakers necessary to create the effect. You didn't even know the speakers were in the back of the room! The Phasearound sounds like it is NOT a time delay unit, just taking out of phase information and sending it to the rear channel at the same time to create the ambience. Is that correct?
I'd like to recreate that again. I have a few questions for you.
Where exactly have you placed the rear speakers?
Is there placement critical to creating the effect?
How far back, are they outside the space of the front speares? Inside?
Have you tried this with movies ever, with a phantom center channel?
Thanks!
PS: You have a great, clean looking system that I'm sure SOUNDS great too. I'm a less is more fan. Fantastic job of putting your system together!
Samuellaudio - In earlier incarnations of my system, I used to use the Monster to switch on my components (some in delay and others not). However, with the Cary monoblocks, I am not able to do that (learned the hard way after popping some fuses in the 211's). So now, it simply functions as a line voltage filter and surge protector. Does it improve the sound - honestly, I'm not sure it makes much difference. It is a convenient way to route the power to the components. Mark
Hi John, Thanks for your comments. I bought the SA11S2 "sound unheard" taking somewhat of a gamble. I liked the fact that it has a phase invert button and the vibe about the player being close to the SA7 intrigued me. I guess I got lucky because I really like what this player does with both CD and SACD. I have not heard the SA11S1 so can't comment on that aspect. Best, Mark
Nice system Krisjan. I agree with you that the Marantz is an improvement over the Cary 306. Did you happen to hear the older SA-11S1 version? If so, how does the newer one compare to it?
FWIW, I'm currently using a Marantz SA-11S1 that has the Ultimate upgrade from Underwood/pcX as my digital reference. It also replaced a more expensive Esoteric player.
System edited: The Marantz SA-11S2 is new to my system. All I can say is that it is a major bargain - it is better than the Cary 306 it replaces for a lot less money. Review to come once I get some hours and listening in.
I have been using a Hafler system for over 20 years. The simplest incarnation of this is to take the positive terminals for both the right and the left channels and run them to a single rear speaker. What this does is extract the out-of-phase information that is already on the recording and creates a significantly larger soundstage. That's how I started 20+ years ago. Today, I use a passive devise called the Phasearound (which was produced back in the 90's by a now-defunct company called Fineline audio) to extract this out-of-phase signal directly from the preamp output and then I route it to an Adcom power amp then to a pair of rear speakers. The Phasaround unit has a volume control so I can fine tune the ambient information in the rear channels.
With most classical recordings, the out-of-phase information creates a fingerprint of the recording venue and results in a much more realistic soundstage than what conventional 2-channel stero can provide. The effect is so good that I have no compulsion to go to today's multichannel setups. Hope that helps. Mark
