It has now been almost a year and I have had some time to spend getting things dialed in. Over the last year I have changed much of my equipment and have gotten a new room so there is a lot of variable to sort out, but with a lot of work (fun) so far I have got the system sounding very good. I still cannot get over how different this room is than my previous room of around 10'X 11'. It is 25' X 30' with vaulted ceilings and a stairwell behind a short wall along the back of the room. This room is on the third floor of my house and all the walls are exterior 2X6 insulated construction. I had 3 dedicated 20 amp 10 awg homerun lines put in when the house was wired along with some heavy carpet pad and carpet.
Every equipment change I have made has been a significant upgrade and really moves this room towards its potential. The more I listen to the Vandersteen 3A Signatures the more I love them. The treble is just so true to sound and the bass continues to elate me as that was the area I had concerns about before purchasing the speakers.
A lot of good things has been said about this player and and I agree.
Parasound Halo P3
This is a great entry-level pre. It matches extremely well with the A23 as would be expected. P.S. Using the XLR connections made a significant difference between the preamp and amp to the sound stage and bass control.
Parasound A 21
250 watts per channel This amp is a large improvement over my previous A23.
Vandersteen 3a Sig
A nice large speaker for a large room.
Anti-Cable Interconnect
Replaced Audioquest Cheetah.
Audioquest Jaguar
Great mid priced cables with DBS. I have continued to enjoy these cables over the last couple of months. They are very clean and detailed and allow for an amazing sound stage. The one area that I am not thrilled is they could be more transparent. This became very clear when I tried the Cheetahs, but at the cost difference I will stay where I am until I make other upgrades.
Anti-cable Speaker cables
They are wonderful.
Black Diamond Racing Cones MKIII
Six vibration dampening/coupling cones. There really is a difference between the different # cones. A tweak that really works wonders in my room. Surprisingly I much prefer the Apollo on its factory feet, not the BDR cones.
GIK Acoustic Panels
Seven 2'X4' acoustic panels. Three used as bass traps, two more at the first reflection point and two more behind the speakers. Best upgrade for the money invested.
Hi,David ! I like your room it`s big and wide and I`m sure the sound is more better with the Vandys your system it`s simple not to much gear, but does`nt matter really nice,really !
You are quite wise to entertain the notion of diffusion over absorption as diffusion - it is usually more $$$ though.
Try to think of sound in terms of echoes.
As I understand it, diffusors are almost always used to greatest effect in front of the speakers to homogenize echoes (i.e. by creating more broad/even/nice echoes.) Absorption is used behind speakers so as to soak up that homogenous echo and shorten the it's delay time. In short, diffusion creates a nicer sounding, more balanced echo & absorption controls how quickly that echo fades out (of our perception/environment.)
As for which type of diffusor to use that's a little more complicated. Whichever one seems most logical to you for your particular room is the best choice. I would venture to guess that you don't think most diffusors are exactly beautiful works of art, so I'd suggest getting a set that can be hidden in your ceiling after you find their optimal locations.
I've heard what you're referring to and imho the nicer tube pre's don't suffer from a lack of bass definition like some less expensive designs can because the designers usually err on the side of more capacitance (more $$$) in a given circuit. I'd be interested to see what you think of an Audio Research SP9 or a Quad QC24.
Anyways, I'm glad to see your outta that little boxy bedroom; that was, I'm sure, a MUCH bigger improvement to the sound than these little tweaky things we're talking about now. Take it easy!
Mapman, I replaced a Denon DVD-3800 that was made around 2003 or maybe a little more recently. It is a very serious looking unit, but nowhere near the audio quality of the new Apollo. There is not even one area where the Denon was comparable. The Denon's strengths were sound staging, PRAT and smooth/non-fatiguing sound. The largest improvements of the Apollo are bass, way more depth, transparency and resolution. I have not heard any of the more recent Denons so I cannot comment on them. This upgrade in sound quality was so dramatic that I am becoming a believer of putting as much player in a system as one can. I hope this helps.
Nice to hear from you again Bruce30. Your idea to put absorbers on the ceiling is a good one and I have been thinking about how to do it inexpensively and in an aesthetically pleasing manner since moving into the room. If you had any ideas they would be appreciated. Also, I need to do some more research, but is it better to use absorption or diffusion? I have heard pretty much this same system with dual 2wq subs and a Supratek Chenin preamp and while it did many things better the bass was never where I loved it. Maybe, this is just a trade off of tubes. There is no doubt that every other area was a major improvement. When I go looking for a new preamp I will be checking out both types of preamps.
I noticed you don't sit very close to your speakers - it may be really beneficial to put up a couple of absorbers on the low ceiling to kill the early reflections (& help those Vandies disappear.)
Maybe I'm a bit of a tube fiend (okay definitely, not maybe) but it it seems like you could use some tube warmth in that all s.s. rig you got. Ever considered a tubed preamp? I've got a really great little Antique Sound Labs LH-01 ($500 msrp) headphone/preamp that really balances out the coldness of my Rotel RB-1080. I guess I never thought there was hope for my Rotel amp sounding like anything super-special until I paired the two. The tubes just make everything sound so much more "alive" & smooth.
BTW, this isn't VideoGon so shut up with all that theater crap! .Just joking. ;D
System edited: While I am updating things I guess I will mention that I added a Mitsubishi 4900 projector to my system. This is my first projector and it is great; except for the dust blobs. The first one appeared at around 40 hours and now I have another and I am only around double that in hours. I will be sending it in soon to be cleaned. For the screen I am using a recipe I found on the internet with 1x4 wood and Black out cloth that I bought at Joanne's Fabrics. For a total investment of $60 I have a nice functional fixed frame screen. I was also able to pick up a Toshiba A3 and A30 HD DVD player on clearance to feed the projector. In case anyone is wondering the A30 is in a different league when upscaling standard DVDs compared to the A3. Sorry about all the video talk... David
I just picked up a Rega Apollo and have been very happy with the purchase. I originally just set it on top of my Denon and It sounded much better then the Denon, but I was not prepared for how much better it sounded after I removed the Denon and put the Apollo on my rack with BDR cones under it. It was like a different player. I played around with the cones, point up and point down, and again noticed a huge difference, but I felt that it did not sound right. Therefore, I tried a after market power cord I bought for my amp and it changed the sound drastically, but not consistently for the better. I left it like that for a day and then went back to do some more experimenting. After much trial and error I ended up with the stock power cord and the player sitting on its stock feet. This was about the last thing I tried and by no small amount was it the best. Now I have all the warmth I need with no loss of resolution and clarity. Previously everything I have had lost those attributes when the BDR cones were removed. Anyways, this just might be the best purchase I have made to upgrade my system. The A21 was a big step also, but it was hard to compare because the A23 I had could hardly run the 3A sigs. at all.
Audiobroke, you were right! It is amazing how much better it is and I am really enjoying it. The Parasound house sound is really consistent from the A23 up to the JC1, but there are definite improvements from one step to the next.
System edited: Thanks Bruce30 and Pdreher for you comments. Bruce your comments got me thinking I should post the pictures of my old room to remind me and show others the difference. It is pretty amazing in this new house and I am very grateful for all I have been blessed with.
Audiobroke thanks for the response, I also saw your response on one of my old posts. I am definitely looking for some more refinement and control especially when musical passages become complex. My only concern is that the A21 will be able to drive my speakers to an appropriate level (80-95 db) in such a large room (25'x30')and remain clean with a stable soundstage. I may end up buying an A21 and another A23 and comparing them as I can use the (2) A23s for the center and surround speakers when I set up a home theater. On another topic, I sold my current house and the new one will be finished around the end of July so I will be living in a fifth wheel for the next couple of months. My stereo will be going into storage and I will have to make due with the stock stereo or maybe I will break down and get an inexpensive headphone amp. Hopefully, I will cope okay and enjoy things that much more in my new place.
Nice setup. I've got the same Parasound combo and it is unbeatable for the money. No other amp has more current for less money, besides sounding so darn good as well. It will drive the lower Ohm speakers very nicely. I would suggest either Bi-amping with another A23, or if you really want to improve it, the A21. The A21 has more Class A power and is a bit smoother. I have many chances to listen to it with many different speakers and it really makes just about any speaker sound great. Good luck!
Thanks for the comments, I recently started looking for some new speakers since I am having a new house built that will have a 25' x 30' dedicated room. I listen to many from 2000-9000 and was not overly impressed overall. All of them seemed to have at least one major weakness and it is so hard to compare from place to place. Because of this I might not change until I can afford speakers like the vandersteen quatros which have been my favorites, but still have some weaknesses. Well, I might consider 3a sigs. Through all this listening, I came to the decision that the Boston's I have are competitive with other "hifi" brands and I would recommend them. They are a little cool in the midrange, but highly detailed. Also, they can be a little bright with the wrong equipment. Despite these drawbacks they image extremely well, are fast, clean, and have no noticeable coloration like almost all of the speakers I listened too.
I know this is a long post, but I am at a training and bored. I have internet access on my pda. Dave
Nice setup David! I was recently in a Circuit City where I listened to a pair of Boston Acoustic spks and was pleasantly impressed. I would imagine a set like yours really sings
The panels in the rear corners are now 4 inches thick compared to the original 2-inch thick panels. They are doubled up R19 insulation. I first tried it with only one layer of R19 and it noticeable helped the bass and lower mid range, but I was not happy with the results. Therefore, I tried doubling up the insulation and the results were more than twice as effective as with the one layer of R19. In response to your questions about sound staging and imaging the results blew me away even though the panels are behind the speakers in the corners. In my room things tended to sound in-your-face and the panels moved the soundstage back behind the speakers. Also, the images are more tightly defined and stable.
I see that the panels are much thicker. How much more did it affect the bass and midrange? I also see that you are using the panels in a horizontal position. How affective is this in soundstage and imaging? Thanks
Highend64, the panels in the picture are actually the first one's I made similar to yours in that they were foam. The new ones are built with R19 insulation and are many many times more effective across the frequency range. I used my existing frames that I built using wood bought at home depot and compressed the insulation with plastic garden fencing that is similar to chicken wire, but easier to work with. I believe this also helps with some positive reflection of upper frequencies to keep the room from sounding to "dead". I have no real way to validate this since I cannot compare it to one compressed another way. I cannot remember where I bough the fabric, but it can be found at any fabric store. If you are thinking about building some with insulation there are many websites with information on how to build them. Also, from my experience in my room the panels that made the largest difference are the ones that straddle the corners behind the speakers (I will include pictures when I have them covered). They tighten the bass considerably which I expected, but I am shocked at how much they open the sound stage.
Hey Dhel, are those panels behind the speakers you made not to long ago? I really like how they look. I just look better then the one I have. Where did you get the materials? Thanks
It has been a while since my last post. Bruce30 I tried listening with the door open and you are right the bass is tighter with better pitch definition with it open. I also moved my CD rack from the sidewall and put it into the back corner to act as a diffuser in the manner you suggested. It seems to make a small, but noticeable difference. The main thing I have done is to build proper insulation filled acoustic panels. The difference is amazing. The largest differences are in tonality, bass clarity and sound staging. The music took a positive move to farther behind the speakers and it is amazing how the sound does not seem to emanate from the speakers. This is wonderful in a small room because they can often sound very in-your-face. At least this has been my experience. I have not tried moving the axis of my system as I forgot about doing so until making this post. I will give it a try. My next project is to change speaker cables. I have tried 4 or 5 and will probably end up purchasing some Alpha Core Goertz MI2's. They work very well with my system and the bass control, pitch definition and sound stage depth is amazing.
