You really need a " Shunmook " record clamp for your Oracle turntable to bring out more energy and detail than you upgrade to phantom or Benz LP. I can send my table picture if you're interest in. Enjoy! Hill
I thought of the long wall, but with the room only 13.5 wide I felt I would be too close to the speakers. One day I will give it an try and hear the difference.
I am away at present and not sure what the height of my ear would be. I use an Ekornes chair and I believe it is rather low. When we set up the speakers they were adjusted for ear height.
You might want to try the speakers on the long wall spaced further apart. Soundstaging, dynamics, bottom end and tonal balance will all be improved..better low level detail as well. Sitting low also helps (ear below 36").
Boy I see I am not the only one that is very jealous of the dedicated room that you have. Very nice system but the big bonus is all of that space you have behind just waiting to be used. What I wouldn't give to have options like that!! David
Wilsons are great. Maybe the best. I would love to see you side by side that whole system with the Green Mountain Audio Continuum Three instead though. Then I would like to see the expression on your face. That would be interesting I think.
I would rebut some of Lightminer's points thus: CD might be a mature technology, but it will be the last free format. Music as pure software will be set up for the provider, not consumer. Remember DivX? That early competitor to DVD-video would have cost up front (buy the disc for 50-70% of the price of a read-many DVD, then pay per view cuz your machine won't operate unless it can phone charges onto your Masturcard) and whenever played. And they'll track who played what when, how often. Marketing dep't will require it. CDs are the principal music medium today, although music files are about to blow CD's doors off. I won't hold my breath for a high-rez (SACD or even Red Book CD equivalent) file format, or for the Apple Reference Line AuPod that'll be sold, and sold hard, to play that imagined format. You can get nearly everything on CD, pretty cheap if you do garage sales and thrift stores. CD will be around for a long time, even if Mall-Wart and Suckit City won't sell them. Many of today's top players should also outlast most of their owners ... the ones who aren't frequently upgrading. LP lives and is actually thriving. There's enough of it to go around that seasoned audiophiles will even leave a few in the stores for the younger generation to discover. Soundwise, LP isn't embarrassed in the least by CD. Music files will be, except in casual portable or automotive listening situations. Bottom line imo: for someone who knows audio will be a big part of life for a long time, investing in quality CD playback makes sense.
I agree with Lightminer's list of top digital brands. I'd add Emm and Weiss, two new but well-received players. What I caution here is that each of these brands sounds quite different. Some people think Wadia is annoyingly "digital" in its sound. Some feel Levinson is polite unto lifelessness. Some find Esoteric's style too lean and forward. Are these brands flawed? No. Each has its house's sound, which sound will have adherents and detractors. Are they wrong? No. People hear differently and their sonic/musical tastes vary. These two factors sum in a linear manner, meaning that the spread of components that are "best in class" is wide. Ya GOTTA listen before assigning coolness factor. Aside: The Elgar accepts non-CD digital datastreams. It's a dressed-up pro unit. John Atkinson uses one with digital master tapes of his recording sessions. cheers apo
While I do not disagree with many of the things Lightminer said, I will say that the importance of the transport cannot be ignored. I will also say that I got a separate DAC for the exact reason Lightminer mentioned. All of my 10K cd collection is ripped and stored on a 1TB NAS. I do not think my Sonos wireless music transport feeding my Esoteric DAC sounds as good as my Esoteric transport and DAC, but it does make it so much easier for me to access and enjoy my music collection. All that being said, who knows where the music medium is headed. I do not think CDs are not going away anytime soon though so for the time being I do think an investment in a top quality cdp is worth it.
Thanks for the response, what you say makes a lot of sense. WELL SAID! After reading your response I agree, monies would be best spent on a DAC. Although now I feel it may also be advantageous to wait for a bit, and see what new technology brings.
Hmmm... Lets see, 15k on a CD player. So, first I would say 'don't'. Let me explain my ideas (some of which I will then qualify and take back with caveats). To a large extent, we need to remember that CDs are somewhat done with. The IPod beat us down. The only people who will have CD Players are us odd audiophile people who insist they sound better than whatever specific form comes next (and half of us are still clutching records - which, btw, seem to be making a comeback of some kind). The only problem which is somehwat unique to product evolution is that what is next... is sort of already here. And is already here on CDs. The next thing is digital files on hard drives. To bridge the gap, some high-end people are already copying their CD files (remember the CD just holds digital music in a certain kHz and bit level) onto music storage devices.
These devices are typically called 'digital music servers'. However, at this point in time, today, there are few really super-high end technologies in this area, but they are coming and the major companies are expressing a lot of interest.
So, one thing you said ameliorates spending 15k on a CD player in what is basically 2008, and already in the digital musical era. And that is that you want separates - this is both the right and wrong approach.
If we ignored digital servers completely, then I would tend to shy away from separates for the CD player as jitter becomes a very difficult problem to solve with separates. Note that getting the Mapleshade Omega Mikro (perhaps the Ebony Active) may eliminate, or at least, minimize theis. However, just note in general that a lot of the super-high end CD companies continue to have extremely strong single box solutions and even moved away from separates a bit because of the difficulty of solving the jitter issues. And DCS sells a 3rd device on their top 2 CD players to manage timing. (See Scarlatti and Verona). (A *really* interesting comparo would be the Scarlatti system with normal digi cable and the 10k master clock thingy versys the 2.x k Omega Mikro cable and no master clock thingy... But I digress...)
Okay, that was the 'wrong approach' part, here is the 'right approach' part. With separates you have the option of using the DAC for your future Music Server system that you may not have pondered yet. So, your investment is protected and you will have a huge good start on the music server business already in hand.
Okay, so given all that, I would add the following: try the Musical Fidelity A5 CD player/Arcam/Linn/maybe Shanling in same class as the A5 - and see if those won't hold you over for 5 years while the industry doesn't make the switch to Music Server stuff. Those are all really excellent players (I have the A5 - and it is tubed, by the way) and closer to the 2k - 3k area. I think at those CD players you are pretty far up the diminishing returns area already - the CD player is not the place I personally would put a lot of bucks, even if I had them to spare. If I had bucks to spare and a dedicated room it would be really fun to move up from you already-incredible Wilson's into some of the larger Von Schwerekit's, for example. I know there are others that will flatly disagree about the relative importance of signal source quality, this is just my opinion (and we're already up into the 3k level for source, I'm not saying combine a 500 CD player with 10k of electronics, which many do proclaim).
Okay - so now, lets say you've heard those 2-3k players and want more. Okay - so these are some of the other companies to consider at the next level up and into the 15k range and beyond:
Meridian (more CD focused as a company) Wadia (more CD focused as a company) DCS (more CD focused as a company) Audio Research (everything they do is top notch) Levinson (everything they do is top notch) Esoteric (definitely belongs in this list)
Now, of those, some can be upgraded with cards, like a computer (in particular the Wadia). At 15k I would definitely try to get an upgradeable CD player. (I haven't done a price versus 'can you upgrade' so you'll have to look around and see if I'm right at 15k, maybe it takes 20, I don't know). Also, I think Wadia would be 'fun' - there is something about those components... That being said, I think if you want super super good, the DCS stuff is probably the best at least as far as the DAC part is concerned. Maybe Wadia transport and DCS DA conversion with Omega Mikro cable? Any of the above are incredibly great options.
Hey, that is really funny. I wrote the above without referencing your equipment list a couple of times - you already do have the mid-priced CD kind of idea I'm mentioning from the exact company! Okay, so you know you want more. Well, I'll leave the above as-is for others to enjoy as a general philosophy of CD players rather than re-writing this already overly-long post - and ammend my final recommendation for your particular situation. Keep it as a transport, and focus that 15k into only a DAC from any of the above higher-end companies (and I personally might suggest DCS ElgarPlus DAC, although it is upgradeable).
See what people are saying about DACs and server music storage, can the ElgarPlus DAC do its DAC thing on various formats for music you donwload - or can it only accept CD-styled formats? I don't know, I'd have to do more research. But, anyway, my point is to prepare for that with such an investment now as much as is possible. (Maybe Wadia is best investment protection even if it sounds a hair less good because of the upgradeable aspect.
Yeah - the Wadia 521 says "All inputs accept and decode standard digital audio formats, from 32 kHz to 96 kHz, and from 16-24 bits." That is exactly what I mean - I would get something at this point in the evolution of music playback that says something like that. The others they have that also have that capability are the 27ix and 'series 9'.
Well done, resorced well allocated to things that make a real somic difference like room treatments and speakers and a solid source componets, no silly cables with magic boxes to be found, nice job!
Thanks, I agree on the room size, bigger may not be better, also I have been TOLD this is the only one I get. As for a CD player...To date I have only looked at SS based units. I am not even sure what there is in the offering in the way of tube based units. Are there may units that are based on the 6DJ8 or 5751 / 12AX7 tubes?
Nice gear, and nicely done with the room as else. A much bigger room and you might loose some of the impact of the system. CD player wise, are you leaning more towards SS or tube based units?...Glen
I do like the Line 3. My first up-grade was the Phono 1, this was up-graded with the Audio Note silver caps and also Audio Note silver by-pass caps. This up-grade took the phone 1 to a new level, all around more enjoyable. My line 3 has an intermittant problem where as the volume will at times cut down to the 30.00 db level as at start up, with the odd time going into mute. I sent the unit to Chris to have it repaired and also though I would up-grade it at the same time. As for being worth it, I think so, it is pricey though. I have a friend who has a Line 3 SE (production SE). We compared his line 3 in my system, before the up-grade the production SE sounded better, after my unit was up-graded it sounds better than the production SE. Hope this helps
I agree, and thanks for the encouragement. I listen to vinyl mostly, but the war department likes to listen to CD's (she is afraid of the turntable for some reason?). So a little give and take is in order I am looking forward to the audition journey finding a player that we both like.
great system. would love to have a dedicated room. choosing a cd player is not going to be easy.ive been looking for a long while. nothing seems to impress me enough to buy one.there are good many players to choose from.ayre,mark levinson, esoteric,linn, classe,wadia melody, meridian,mc intosh,nagra.the differences between the players are very subtle. then comparing a player you listened to a week before. good luck
Thanks for the information and the link, I am in Canada and will search out a dealer, hopefully close to have a listen, however next time I'm south (spring next year?) I will stop by the store and have a listen.
That is a nice system you have amased, I imagine the Esoteric equipment sounds fantastic
The room is 13.5' wide and 18'+ long. (a photographic optical illusion). The low point is the ceiling at 7.5', the better half allows for a lot, but stops short at the property upgrade ladder. For a sense of scale the stand is 64" x 30". The speakers are 5' from the front wall and 3' from the side walls, from the front center of the cone. I'm not at home right now so these are approximate. The speakers were set up by my local dealer, I played with the placement, and found the original placement sounded the best. I looked up the distances of my last speakers, except for the amount of toe in, they were within several inches.
The weather is indeed great, when the whole stae is not on fire!
For separates, I would recommend the P5D5 combo or the combo I have P3D5. The P3 has a better transport which in my opinion is more important than the DAC. Good luck.
I have heard of the prices in SoCal, the weather must make it worth while.
Thanks for the heads up on the Esoteric gear, I have yet to have the chance to listen, but have heard good things. My budget is up to 15k, would like to get seperates. I will have to search out a dealer and have a listen.
Wow! It would be my dream to have dedicated listening room. But alas with real estate prices here in SoCal, getting a large home is tough. I would never leave if I had a room like yours!
In terms of a cdp, if you love detail and resolution I would seriously look at Esoteric. Its ability to retrieve every detail and imperfection of the music makes it sound so organic and lifelike. What is your budget for a cdp?
