i use wireless and hard wired from either a mac computer or from airport express devices. then from these devices i go into a jitter removal/reduction device and then into an external dac by digital coax cable.

rbstehno August 04, 2008 14:07

what do you think is the best way to get the data to the DAC?

Options:
1. wireless transmission to AE, toslink to DAC (doesnt fit with above amp, but Im not locked into that amp)
2. wireless transmission to AE, USB out to above amp (is this possible?, there is a USB thing on the AE, but never read anyone using it for itunes out to DAC)
3. wired tranmission via Ethernet to DAC with that input (I read that there is a $20k DAC using ethernet! Linn?)
4. wired tranmission via USB (just use extenders, Im assuming this is ok - no loss)
5. wired transmission via ethernet to AE, then USB out to DAC (dont know if possible)
6. some other method!

thanks

mauombo July 23, 2008 19:21

after more research and reading many reviews, a nice solution seems to be the bel canto integrated amp with USB DAC

I now have to find out if the data is affected using a long USB cable...

mauombo July 22, 2008 18:06

a dedicated connection is always best. with audio, 802.11g is fine and would be the minimum i would use, but 802.11n will provide better coverage and much faster speeds.

rbstehno July 21, 2008 17:10

I have read that the wireless transmission from computer to AE limits the quality of the transmission because itunes/AE automatically transmits the signal at a certain rate

this doesnt matter if youre using mp3... but most of my music is lossless - so am I wasting my time having losses in itunes if its being downgraded in the trasmission stage?

if this is true, what is the best way to send the information from computer to DAC/stereo? if it has to be a cable, thats fine - I was using AE for convenience... but a cable is only an inconvenience ONCE!

thanks

mauombo July 20, 2008 19:34

i have read many articles on using the usb port for audio purposes and they all don't recommend it. even the articles on using a usb dac have not been positive. the other reason i wouldn't go with usb is that you are limiting yourself to which dacs to use. some of the best dacs made do not accept usb and if you want/need to use a jitter remover device, none of them that i know of accept an usb connection.

rbstehno June 29, 2008 06:47

Has anyone had any luck hacking the apple tv? I'd like to change the audio output to usb which appears possible via the hack.

mbehner June 26, 2008 10:10

i would add a jitter elimination device between the mac and the dac. i them installed in my systems throughout the house. huge difference.

rbstehno June 11, 2008 07:47

PWFletcher,

You mentioned upgrading my front L&R. I have been looking at the PMC OB-1's. I'd like to stick in that line so I wont have to replace all speakers in my surround set up. Have you heard these and what other advice might you give me?

mbehner May 31, 2008 20:36

I can sympathize with your space requirements. I live in a 600 sq. foot apartment and I really have to squeeze my system in as well. (and I won't get started on my neibors) It is ashame though that you have a nice house and are restricted to a closet! Mini-monitors are the way to go then, and the dynaudios are pretty amazing, so enjoy!

audiobroke March 22, 2008 08:35

Hi,
I would really appreciate your help. I think your setup is amazing and I am trying to do something somewhat similar. In the description of your system you say that "My audio system, as well as my home automation system, can be accessed and controlled from my iPhone or from any computer connected to the internet from anywhere in the world."
I would love to be able to do this. Is it really possible to control the music store on a mac mini via an iphone or ipod touch? Are you able to see the all the names of the songs, the album art, etc? If so, this is exactly what I want to do, and I would really appreciate your input. I hope to hear back from you soon.

ljr33 March 18, 2008 08:30

Mbehner:

Just an FYI ... although the AppleTV has a USB out, that USB port cannot be used to output a digital audio stream like a MacMini's USB port can. You will have to connect the AppleTV to the Bel Canto via a toslink cable.

pwfletcher March 14, 2008 21:36

Thanks for your responses. The apple tv does have a USB out. Someone mentioned that since I am connecting from apple tv to my preamp that I am using the dac in my preamp. If I run from apple tv to a bel canto dac then to my preamp will this degrade the stream vs. running from the bel canto directly to my amp? I'm a bit confused about this.

Also, one of the nice features with apple tv is the on screen interface. I connect via hdmi to my preamp and from my preamp to tv via hdmi. This takes advantage of hdmi switching at the preamp wth no need to change the tv inputs for the various components. If I connect apple tv to a dac with usb, would there be a way to use the hdmi for video while using the usb to dac for audio?

I also looked at the audio request music servers as a means to simplify this process but was disappointed with the on screen interface. Does anyone have any good experience with this product?

mbehner March 11, 2008 21:53

Pwfletcher...
Thanks for your response. By the way, I'm sure you system kicks ass!! The pictures of it look great. I would love to one day uprgrade to C1 speakers. Sorry if I was confusing, but I think you figured out what I am trying to do. I do not yet own the ATV or a DAC. I only own the i5.3 and the 52se speakers. Would you suggest that I get something else instead of the ATV, if so would this also change your recommendation for the DAC? I look forward to your response. Thanks.

ljr33 March 09, 2008 18:46

Ljr33 ... your post is a bit confusing. However, if I understand you correctly, you want to use your AppleTV as the source, connect to a DAC via toslink, then into a SimAudio i5.3: ATV --> DAC --> Sim.

Your system will sound great. However, by using the ATV as a source, you are forced to go toslink into a DAC instead of USB. Accordingly, you will lose some jitter reduction that is provided by most USB DACs. However, it can still sound very, very good. Therefore, given the setup you are proposing, my recommendation would be to by a used Benchmark Media DAC 1 which should cost you between $800 and $900 and can be readily found on AudioGon. There are two models, one USB and one non-USB ... get the non-USB. You do not need the USB model that costs $300 more. You will be more than pleased with this setup ...

pwfletcher March 08, 2008 17:54

System edited: Just updated the home automation system ...

pwfletcher March 08, 2008 17:42

Pwfletcher,
I am looking for a dac to go with the moon i5.3 that I am about to purchase. The dac would be used for a connection of an appple tv to play my music on itunes. I know you are currently using the bel canto with the simaudio i7. Do you have any recommendations for me? Does anyone else have any suggestions? I don't really want to spend much more than 1000 dollars on a dac. Thanks.

ljr33 March 06, 2008 11:38

I am in the process of purchasing a simaudio moon i5.3. I have Dynaudio 52se speakers. I am looking for a way to play all my itunes music files. What is the best way to do this? I was thinking about getting an apple tv. Any suggestions? Does anyone know the best way to solve my questions?

ljr33 March 05, 2008 20:17

Mbehner,

NO, you don't want to follow the advice of the other posters here, with exception of the original system owner, Pwfletcher. What you are trying to do with a DAC is to NOT use the stereo out from headphones jack of your apple TV.

And you also do NOT want to use the Toslink or SPDIF. Again, NOT the analog connection from ipod or apple and NOT the Toslink and NOT the coaxial interface.

What you DO want to use is USB input into the DAC. USB out of the mac tv, mac laptop, mac ipod, mac whatever. USB USB USB. Not Toslink.

IF you have ripped your songs using apple lossless, then connect the USB output to a good DAC. out put of DAC into your stereo or multichannel audio system.

As Pwfletcher posted: DAC's kind of go in the following order of quality of sound. Some other lower end than even these, and probably a few upper end I have missed. Benchmark, modified Benchmark, Bel Canto, modified Bel Canto, Wavelength Coescent, Wavelength Crimson. There is also a Music Fidelity DAC with USB. I am not sure exactly how it stacks up but given Music Fidelity's overall quality, probably somewhere in there around the Bel Canto.. a little better or worse, I am not sure.

There are probably others.

As Pwfletcher stated, start with the Benchmark, then once you get is all figured out, upgrade. Probably a good fit would be the Bel Canto for you.

And as Pwfletcher stated.. upgrade those front two speakers.

sailboat

sailboat March 04, 2008 18:06

Really neat setup!! I probably would never leave the desk...think of all the work one could accomplish ;)

I can't wait I get my BC Dac3 tomorrow...i love the music server convenience too much; I hope the Squeezebox is a decent transport!!...
Have you tried running the Bel Canto direct to the amp section of your integrated (if that option exists)?

Party on!

dpac996 February 28, 2008 12:14

Mbehner ... my suggestions for you are as follows:

1. Rip everything via Apple Lossless and make sure it is backed up ... I am now using a NewerTech Guardian with dual 750GB drives in Raid-0;

2. Buy a used Benchmark Media USB DAC and use the USB input ... that will be the best price/value choice for your present system and you absolutely WILL hear the difference. Plus, you will be able to sell it instantly when you decide to upgrade. The next step up, either a Bel Canto DAC3 or Wavelength Cosecant, are both better than you need with your NAD.

3. After you complete the two suggestions above, get yourself two new speakers for the front end two channel.

pwfletcher February 24, 2008 21:17

That is very helpful. I have my apply tv connected to me surround receiver via hdmi. I assumed this was the superior connection and I like that it carries video and audio. Would a toslink cable carry the audio better?

I imported some cd's using the lossless compression and I do notice a substantial improvement. I will try aiff as well. Still, a cd does sound better. Even though my preamp has a dac would it make any sense to purchase a standalone such as a belcanto? Could I place this between apple tv and my preamp?

mbehner February 24, 2008 21:10

Right now, I think you're connecting to your integrated via a 3.5 mm plug to RCA connectors (red/white). If this is the case, and since your amp is analog which leaves you with no choice, you're using the DAC in the apple TV.

However, if you have a home theatre receiver or plan on getting a DAC (the come in all price ranges) then you're going to want to bypass the DAC in your computer/apple TV/whatever by using a digital cable out. I think Apple products only have optical/toslink. A lot of people seem to think coaxial is far superior to optical and some think otherwise etc. because of jitter etc (the jury is out on that topic too.

Either way, if you have an Apple there is only one choice. However, there was this good article from six moons, where the reviewer did a shootout with relatively inexpensive ($150) toslink cables and found them to be equal to very expensive coaxial cables... so this is good for Apple people.

Only two cables met his expectations. The "Wireworld SuperNova+ MKII" and the "Van Den Hel Optocoupler". They're both glass toslink cables. I'm still waiting for mine so I can't say if it is an improvement.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/toslink/toslink.html

Oops, re-read your post. If you have surround, then you have a digital processor. In that case, I would use a toslink to send out the ones and zeros and use your surround processor to do the DAC conversion.

By the way, find out if the output on the Apple TV is a "mini-toslink" or regular toslink (which is synonymous with optical). You can buy an adapter, but Van Den Hul makes a mini-toslink to toslink cable. That's what I chose.

I basically use my Macbook and send all audio... divx movies, youtube, itunes (Airport Express/files in AIFF/MP3), whatever, through a toslink cable into my cheap DAC ($150 entech 205.2) which I connect to my cheap analog integrated. Sounds good to me.

I have to admit there wasn't a huge diffence with the cheap DAC and the DAC in my airport express. There was less grain, and the images were bigger and I guess the sound was larger, but I have a pretty basic amp. Your system should be much more capable of discerning sonic differences.

By the way, different file types make a difference. If you can ripping CDs in bit for bit formats like AIFF (or WAV, but this is not ideal for itunes because you can't tag tracks as well) is far superior to MP3 or lossless. In fact, I found (granted it's on my non-hi resolving system) lossless sounded really compressed and I think I preferred a high bit rate MP3 (320kbps) over it. AIFF is definitely better. You'll have to see for yourself.

You should go to the "wavelength" site (their Brick DAC..tube) and have a read, it explains things much better than I would. If I could drop that kind of cash, that would be my new toy. A lot of reviews like the Benchmark DAC 1 (SS), but then I wonder why there are so many for re-sale. Either way, both these items go quick.

I'm pretty new to this and didn't want to spend a mint while I figured stuff out. Hope this helps.

elf73 February 21, 2008 21:31

Your post was very helpful. I would like to upgrade the quality of the stream. I really like the on screen interface of apple tv, plus that I can watch video and you tube etc. I would very much like to improve the quality of the audio. Is there any hardware that I could use in conjunction with the apple tv to improve the audio? I have NAD masters series preamp and amplifier, shunyata hydra, Nordost blue heaven cable, and PMC FB-1/DB-1 speakers(5) and an MJ Acoustics Sub. I love my system for music and surround, but am disappointed with the output from itunes. Thanks much.

mbehner February 21, 2008 19:42

Somebody might come up with a better answer for you, but here is my non-technical understanding/explanation.

DAC stands for Digital to Analog Converter. It's a chip. CD tracks or music files are basically ones and zeros (digital), sound is analog (speakers need an analog--electrical/mechanical signal). Your NAD integrated is an analog component. All digital media players (CD, DVD, Apple TV, etc) has a DAC in it in order for you to hear music. Obviously, as you can figure out, some DACs and their designs (tube or whatever) are better than others.

Some stand-alone DAC manufacturers claim (Wavelength, Benchmark etc) that their product sounds as good or better than CD players, with equal or less expense and greater convenience (store all music on a computer hard-drive and use as jukebox).

Haven't used the Apple TV, but I do use an Apple Airport Express, connected to a cheap DAC via an optical cable and stream music wirelessly into my integrated from my Macbook. Works well. I'm too knowledgeable enough about various hi-fi equipment to comment on the merits of the sound, but it sounds good to me. Can't beat the convenience.

Internet radio on itunes is pretty cool too. I like Radio Paradise in the "eclectic" subcategory and the reggae stations. No commercials.

elf73 February 21, 2008 07:42