the AG never needed a tube amp , its the tube amp that needs the ag ......... still looking at a dismantled audio consulting modified duo in my living room ... mate millions of bits of gear scattered around the house ,millions .... in fact a have just seen a symposium vibartion platform under the scale in the bathroom , handy Alice ,always there to put things in order

esotheric June 12, 2009 20:23

ah well then our loss i suppose
was just trying to flatter you a bit .but please remember its only a speaker .dont feel all that special .people have mega yachts .airplanes ,grand homes .... you are a bit stuck up .its not like youre shagging giselle bundchen and we want a picture of the act .... man you must be boring .go and make love to your ribbon

esotheric August 23, 2008 09:10

ah .i see
Florian .i am only trying to get on your nerves...sorry it was mean to be a bit of a joke really
the way i see it is that you are in possession of a unique commission ,you have gone a long way to improve this beast ( i too ...... i love apogee) .i am also sure that the process was tedious and the bill was salty
let me guess ,f;/.ck off components ,religious soldering ,stringent cables choice .wbts . etc etc

so show us then .feature the system in depth .take measuremens .you could have a mini site with the pics and stuff
its not about proving the point or not
check the system up ,see what it does ,pics on all corners .it may sound nerdy but after all only a few have been sold
if it was a car with the same number of units built ,it would be legendary ,for crying out loud it cost way more than a serious car
maybe people can listen one day????? ,have you ever shown your kit to the press ,it could be fun !!
it is sort of a really really rare object.
only you have one ,everyone in the factory died ,so MEASURE IT
if i had a grand spammed up ,i would do all of the above .... in this day and age where things are small and puny ,all multifunction devices ,ribbon speakers that are 2.30 tall several hundreds of kilos dont show up every day

if i was you .i will get out of this little audio debate and start on providing the world with the only webpage demonstrating a true milestone in loudspeaker design .
.... ladies and gentleman put your hands togheter for the apogee grand

esotheric August 22, 2008 16:54

spl
now an apogee has quite a bit of radiation pattern (being a large planar ) we will assume 130db or thereabout at 1 metres

it gets a bit more complicated as apogee claims an 84 db sensitivity as dB = 10 x log (P1 ÷ P0)

the result is a bit more complicated as you will need roughly 5000 watts if you are sitting at about 7 metres or 22 foot from the speakers and want to achieve 100db peaks at listning position .... and thats for an 8 ohm loudspeaker (hardly a grand spec ) .thats assuming you have a pair of grand with a bit of room gain (ie not anechoic ) and still have about 4 db of headroom gain (shit double the power before clipping )

then i suggest i come armed with an amp capable of such specs and plug it to your apogee and see how they like it

to claim such an absurdity as "can compete with fully blown horn system " is pretty shameful for a seasoned audiophile like you
i have seen this claim (no graphs from an audio suite mind you ) on other sites

on the other hand you will need around 15-18 watts on a fully blown horn system (certain goto. onken ,ag trio ) to reach the same results
sound reinforcement companies dont use horns on concerts just cos they like the look of them you know !!!!
the grand does not go loud and its certainly a pig to drive .i think that what you describe as loud is what i refer to as modest in the spl world

at 130 db .the grand will simply turn into a rice crispies sheet .
now there is also the possibility that the spec sheet was total fib
5000 watts plus into an apogee ...... give me a break

esotheric August 21, 2008 22:20

but .i seen it with my own eyes ,you said that replacement ribbons and x-over was not needed .chad showed me the conversation .
i didnt assume anything ,you made a point that stock was best
now ,if you changed things up ,than you are almost there i think
in my opinion "gulp!" you can go even further by ditching the speakers all together for something a little more lifelike
to me dynamics are the life and soul of the music
my preference tend to be around realistic spl levels .
listening to a drum kit on an apogee just does not cut it for my taste .... way to polite
if in doubt .invite someone with a drum kit or a trumpet in you listening room ,same distance as your speakers ,and give it a bash .i dont think you will be too impressed with anything apogee made in the dynamics dept
i seem to remember graz talking about a speaker he makes in the 100 db w/m range .now we talking !!! have you experienced hi eff ribbons ? i dont mean 92 93 db .more like 99 101 db

esotheric August 21, 2008 17:04

hi . i sold chad both the duetta and the diva . i am the mate he speaks of re the lyngdorf
i was a dealer for apogee in late 80s .did all the line up but the in wall gear
no matter what people will tell you .an original apogee ,ie stock everything will never hold a candle to an upgraded apogee with new tech ribbon and reworked crossover ,it is not even close
i have personally owned 2 full ranges system , the subs never really worked for me
florian if your afr is stock .you cannot even comment
on the other hand you might think that chad setting out is crap ..... i listened to it again 2 weeks ago
now , you might think iam biased ,but with 17 years behind the counter of a hiend outlet ,an extremly hard to please nature .if you could show me a speaker that cheap that can perform to that level ,than i am ordering a 7.1 set for my cinema

esotheric August 19, 2008 19:15

yeah man ,seen the guy .he might have good sound ,but no way he can get any realistic impact . dynamic swings will be very small .and ultimately max spl will suffer badly
i think quads are ok for " pensioner playing banjo" only recordings.
i am no expert ,but a quad V apogee .i think the contest will be ridiculous .i will not be able to live with a quad ,simply not enough dynamics and restricted spl

esotheric January 16, 2008 23:25

and NAD av has to be the most unreliable piece of gear in history .you know that chad ,opened the 4th 775 on the row and its dead ,what a lot of bullshit ,stayed till 10 pm with the client .considering my saisho alarm clock worked flawless from the begining and is still working 14 years on makes you wonder where nad makes its gear
the uk sales manager told me that "these are complex machines to program "???? ,done crestron for 8 years ,including fingerprint recognition and timed events on video streaming ,isf calibration etc etc ,what abunch of cowboys
anyway .stop denying the truth ,agent mulder ,scally ,rumsfeld and einstein all agree .if you had to be buried in style .it would have to be inside a pair of halcro dm 88 .what you do is remove the top and bottom plate ,get the ps out ,remove th output stages blah blah blah blah

esotheric January 15, 2008 22:16