I am also skeptical of professional reviews, to the point where I believe that nothing is written without a previously-approved commercial agenda, usually proportional to a manufacturers’ volume of advertizing budget, or interest regarding that manufacturer’s efforts in this competitive market. I also happen to work with ideas for a living – and this sometimes with a direct link to the audio industry though not the major part of my activities. You might say that my work does involve the interpretation, (not judgment), of individual and sociological (groups) behaviors of consumers in the context of purchasing luxury goods, whether they are upscale sports equipment, photography gear…or any other type of product including high-end audio. A lot of money is either invested – or wasted – by companies on their ability or disability to try and get a meaningful interpretation of customer behavior. Of course, there is always a strong subjective flavor to this, as it is quite a challenge to know the REAL motives behind consumer choices and actions. But a lot can be determined by the actions (not thoughts) and the resulting choices a consumer makes – especially if it is shared in a forum for all to see. Now I do stand behind what I have written so far, and I made the effort to do my best to disconnect between my work and my personal ‘’audio enthusiast’’ audiophile profile – the only one that should matter anyway when responding to forums (unless one is actively making a living in this industry, which I am certainly not). But it is like a wine taster in a certain way. Once he has gathered a certain amount of experience (like tasting and evaluating hundreds of wines), the interpretation process no longer takes much time, as within seconds of tasting, he will be able to identify many things such as provenance and characteristics of that wine. I feel that there are a few (just a few) similarities with this audio hobby. Many ‘’audio-consumers’’ strive to be different with their choices, and strive for exclusivity and recognition from their ‘’peers’’ in this hobby. This creates a pretty predictable code of conduct and behavioral pattern that makes the consumer almost like a sitting duck and an easy prey. Audio manufacturers know this of course, and the audio magazines – both printed and on-line exploit this commercially – and why not, it is their reason for being. I am no different from anyone here regarding the audio experience, but I did recognize a pattern in my own choices – and mostly a pattern years ago as to where all of this was leading to (and especially the monetary costs and social costs to it), and I didn’t like that place, so I made the resulting choices that were beneficial for me, but it may not be beneficial to others. But that’s the fun of audio forums is it not? Sharing and commenting on what people write about (and maybe hoping to help along the way even if it may not be perceived as such from the surface)– and in doing so exposing yourself to the two-way-street resulting comments from others – and this is fair game if you asked me. Enough rambling – back to the music!

sonicbeauty April 25, 2010 07:00

Classicjazz ''this is a hobby not a debate''...hum, I think that your manifesto is clearly in the direction of a debate, and if I may say so, you might be looking way too deep in the roots of whatever link you are trying to hold on to here, Again, this is a public forum, not a court of law where people's lives are scrutinized, and commentaries are only that, commentaries in response to one's display of his audio experiences. With such a refined use of complicated words to define simple matters, it makes me wonder if you are actually an audio reviewer?

sonicbeauty April 24, 2010 08:32

I agree with Roccoriley, Mihalis is both informative and entertaining, and Audiogon is a great place to voice one's opinion in this free forum. I also wish for him to ''keep it up'' as you have to admit he knows a lot about audio.

sonicbeauty April 17, 2010 05:24

Mihalis..your statement: 'In the same way that I don’t derive conclusions about your person from your silly name, I would want you to offer me and the other audiophiles the courtesy of limiting your statements to the message, not the messenger.''

I do not wish for you to take offence, and well, if you feel that the ''sonicbeauty'' moniker is silly, (I admit it is not aimed at the overly serious audiophile, you know, the type that doesn’t smile much) well, you are entitled to your opinion!

And this is precisely my point here. You choose to post on this ''very'' for-everyone-to-see-forum your audiophile experience and resulting choices. Contrary to what you may beleive, these experiences speak volumes about certain behaviours and ways of this ''audiophile'' hobby. My comments are not meant to be negative. If you read my post attentively you will notice that I wrote ''which is ok if the shoe fits'', meaning just that, if it makes your motor run, all the better for you!

When you mention that ‘’ as for liking equipment OVER music. You don’t know me and so your conclusions could be (and are) completely off.’’ You are completely right! I may be completely off. My aim is not to be right, I am just sharing my opinion of what I think based on what I have seen and am reading. It’s just an opinion – if the hat doesn’t fit – don’t wear it – but if you can’t stand the heat – sorry, better get out of the kitchen! This is an honest forum, where real people express real opinions. Why would my opinion be less important than yours? Because I do not own a castle’s worth of audio gear? (I used to by the way, not of the same magnitude as yours but not too shabby and obscenely expensive too).

But one thing I feel you need to accept is that posting opinions is a two way street. If you do not wish for responses (good and bad) just don't post anything. But if you do, getting feedback is part of the game. And this may include whatever clues to personal choices your photos may inspire.

By wondering who else in a household will benefit from such a lavish and expensive system (and the monetary costs and human costs associated with it) I was merely pointing to a generalized truth about typical audiophiles who sometimes are the only one to enjoy the ''air'' around a saxophone solo recorded at the back of the soundstage, and heard from row 22 in your listening room (or row 6 depending on your cables and whatever gizmo, I’ve been there).

I totally beleive you when you say that everyone including kids enjoy your great system. Do they still enjoy it with a rendition of a Mahler symphony? Or would they enjoy it just as much on a NAD system (how about one in their own room!)but with their favorite music? It's all subjective, and sometimes we use this argument (that it benefits everyone in the house) to justify our spendings, when in reality we really don't need to go all out...for the other ones in the room that is. The point is that of course many of us DO want to go all out with this audio stuff, as they are big-boy toys for many - but it is rarely the case for the rest of the family, especially the children - they like quality too, they just have a different way of expressing it and consuming it. For many, take away their iPod and give them a turntable instead along with cost-no-object electronics, and STILL, that might drive them out of this hobby fast, no matter how good the sound is.
So, it’s nothing personal, (but then you express your personality by sharing your audio ways) your experience does reveal a certain extreme that I wanted to express.

You also mention that ‘’ In terms of absurd money spending, that is a matter of your economic position and opinion.’’ I also agree, but not entirely. It could mean that someone has the means to buy whatever toys they want and it is like spending pocket money. Those may be in it for gear lust and yes... because of their love of music of course, although I have rarely met this kind on Audio forums. Many music lovers (at least the ones I know) will invest a lot in purchasing music an maybe 6-7 components max and keep them. Many gear lovers are endless repeat-purchasers of gear and play the same 6-7 cd's...or tracks! (hint:why do you think that out of 13 A'gon forums, only one is dedicated only to music?)Nothing wrong with this, just as there's nothing wrong in drooling over cameras or sailboats, but let's call a cat a cat will you?

It may also mean that someone is putting everything in his hobby, and makes it a top priority (I am not saying this is bad, just saying it wouldn’t be MY choice). It could also mean one’s ability to get in debt or to borrow money. So I guess I should take your ‘’it’s a matter of economic position’’ statement the same as flexing your wallet in saying ‘’I can afford this, here’s proof’’. Nothing wrong with it – in fact, I would probably get into a kilobuck system before getting into a $ 300,00 painting or Maybach.

So, your system and post brought back some memories when I admit to having been in love with music (I still am today) but even more with the gear, as the gear part took over big-time and I had to let go as there was no end to this.
My first ‘’serious’’ component was a pair of $ 15,000 speakers. That was the start of it.
(see my review here! http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1032833205 )It's still there after all those years.

– I eventually doubled that amount in a preamp and an amp alone – then a ‘’high-end’’ (very high-end) turntable, then cables the price of 20 evening outs at the local symphony and dinner (for two).

Then I did a foolish thing, I sold it all!
This is no joke; this is what I got in return:

Huge Coleman fold-down tent – toured the USA & Canada for 7 years with it with our two kids! Wonderfull memories.

A Martin guitar for my son – (my idea of live music) no system can reproduce this.

One for myself, although not a D-series but an OM size (concert size)

A nice Yamaha violin for my daughter (she took 5 years of wonderful classes).

Trip to Paris (for the four of us) with a couple of live concerts and good food

Trip to Italy (for the four of us) with an Opera concert.

And (almost forgot) also, a ‘’mundane’’ Cayin A-88T integrated with Sonus Faber speakers and Rega cd player,hardly drool-worthy units, because, I still love music just as much (but not quite as much as playing guitar or hearing a live instrument in my living room, even if not played to perfection).

This does not make me any better or worse. I actually LOST MONEY! on this foolish spending, contrary to savvy purchases of blue chip audio gear, by savvy buyers and sellers. Somehow, I feel that I am richer for it after all. But thats just me.

Now the kids (in their early twenties) no longer ‘’follow’’ on camping trips with the ''air-conditioning-equiped'' Coleman– so we sold that – that was a sad day ending some incredible memories, but there are other, different ones to come... now if I can just find that ad again for that nice Audio Research amp I skipped over the other day....

Thanks again for bringing back so good memories, nothing personal !

As for my ''silly'', well, can't please 'em all I guess!

Cheers!

sonicbeauty April 15, 2010 19:12

You are joking aren't you? Saying that ''you are just getting there'' with all those jewels in a secret cave is like saying that Oprah is on her way to finally getting a good-paying job, or that Jeff Beck is on his way to being a good guitar player.

My apologies, but this absurd money-spending is just one more proof that for some, this hobby has the gear-lust all over the musical enjoyement, and that the toys presented here with your photos, show one's priority in life, which is ok if the shoe fits.

I can't imagine evaluating all the time it took, the long searching, evaluating, purchasing, listening hours involved in all of this, and how many people in a household is this for?

A-1 for bragging rights, but I feel your post title ''This is not a System! But getting there'' did the job in making me voice my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I like nice equipment as much as the next guy, but this is totally ridiculous.

Thank's for making me see the light.

sonicbeauty April 10, 2010 09:58