If you saw my previous system you already know that I'm the Italian distributor of some brands, so please be aware of this. I'm also a Music lover and a real passionate of audio gears since 1987... when I was fifteen. The new reference system with German Physiks omnidirectional speakers is something that you can easily appreciate if you are used to attend live music events. With the entering of this fabulous speaker the sound can be now compared with real music only. Dynamics, liveliness, timbric accuracy and all of the other words normally used to describe a great system seem now pointless: just put a piano sonata recording, or a live jazz double-bass, sax and drums trio, or even a single female voice... then close your eyes. You'll hear the musicians in your room as never happened before. When you hear what this system is capable of, there is no going back. And you will start rediscovering all your music collection... as happened to me.
The great Reference table made by Franc Kuzma in Slovenia. Known all other the world.
Kuzma Stogi Ref
The perfect match for the Ref TT.
Koetsu Signature Red
Not a bad cartridge... ;-)
German Physiks Loreley
Omnidirectional speaker from German based company. German Physiks is often the first choice of many important musicians all over the world and a statement for the most expert and demanding audiophiles. Not surprisingly, they are not for all pockets.
Hi Luca -- maybe you know the answer to this question -- why hasn't German Physiks made a DDD drive that reaches below 20hz? The original Walsh design supposedly got close to 20hz. I'm just curious...
Hi David, glad to know that the info are useful for you. I have the Loreley MKIII: this model is equipped with 4 DDD per side, so you get 4 times the energy of a "normal" model and 2 times the energy of the PQS402; all that energy is in the 180-24.000 Hz frequency range. There is a huge difference between the PQS402 and the Loreley. Just consider that the Loreley design comes from the top of the line Gaudi, only downsized to be put in a "normal" (although very big) room. The PQS402 doesn't have the full dynamic scale and deep powerful bass that the Loreley possess but still it's much more dynamic than 95% of the remaining speakers of similar size. To give you a couple of examples, a room of - say - 24x36/40 feets is better filled by a PQS402, while a 40x48 feets room is good for a Loreley. The PQS402 is also easier to install and disappear very well with less efforts. Always remember that the more energy the speaker has, the more you have to work to get the best from the speaker. So, if you are looking for an honest advice, get a PQS402 with carbon drivers and enjoy the music as never before... German Physiks are much less power demanding than MBL (efficiency is more than 88dB for the PQS402) but surely need extremely high quality amps in order to get the more natural and truthful sound. Your CAT JL3's are surely enough but you can also feed them with 450 watts of continued power, or 750 peak, if you wish. All the best, luca
Hi Luca that's the kind of info. I'm looking for and really appreciate it. Sounds to me that I would be pursuing Carbon and yes I fully agree the DDD driver must be amazing if it does that properly but as we all know there is no perfect speaker so what is the down side besides the size and cost?
Okay I noticed you had the PQS-402 speaker and now the Loreley, is the Loreley you have the MK2 version?
What is the difference between these two speakers as I see the Loreley has a additional DDD driver. What does this add to the over all sound reproduction because the suggested list is almost double the cost, do you get your monies worth or is it minimal like 5% better?
I also noticed you are using the same mono blocks to drive both, what's the recommended power to drive these properly and to their full potential. Are these hard to drive like my MBL's?
Hi David, my pleasure. Well, the first DDD versions (we are talking about the early nineties) were surely more fragile than the present ones. With the last version of the titan DDD you have not to worry about any reliability issues. That being said, you can still destroy a driver if this is your purpose: just heavy clip an amp for a minute or two and you are fine. But even with extremely high levels, assuming that the amp doesn't clip, the DDD has no problem at all. This is the titan version. Since a couple of years you can also get the DDD in the more refined and powerful carbon version. The carbon DDD can play 4 dB louder than the titan and cannot be damaged if you touch the membrane with your fingers. More, the carbon version is even more neutral sounding than the titan and in some way warmer. I personally prefer the carbon DDD for all these reasons. The carbon DDD is almost impossible to damage even if you push it extremely hard. I believe your ears would cry before the driver starts to be really stressed. Talking about timbric and dynamic fidelity, I am sure you will find the German Physiks absolutely unique. Just remember this: you have only one driver covering the 190-24.000 Hz frequency range. Even the monstruos Loreley is a 2 way speaker but with 4 DDD's instead of one per channel. Your beloved 101's has 3 different drivers plus a subwoofer: just compare it with the Carbon of GP and let me know then what's your thought.
Regarding the DDD full range driver I heard there were problems with it at one time so are you aware if those issues are non existent now? I don't want to worry about reliability or have to be careful how load I play etc. those days are gone when I use to have a pair of speakers with CERAMIC drivers and they would get damaged.
When I owned the Eggleston's you could throw any thing at them, you could turn them up with no worries and the same goes with my current MBL's.
What is the main sonic differences between these two versions one being the later Carbon version that you referred to.
Just so that I clarify a little regarding my listening taste when I mentioned male and female vocals this obviously includes all kinds of instruments. One of my pet peeves is when I listen to systems and specific instruments don't sound real or when there are bass notes there is no body or tone or not controlled properly. I was just listening to a piece of music earlier today and you could feel the presence along with hearing the base being played. I could count the base notes and hear the actual plucking of the strings, hearing the fingers on the actual strings them selves which was amazing. So what I'm looking for is realism and when I put on a piece of music on for example and it's a drummer player then that drum set should sound realistic and set-up within my room along with any other instruments being played and obviously voices. People think voices are easy to reproduce but really they aren't. Just last week I was over listening to a very expensive system and while listening to Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash piece the chesty sound was not accurate, it was okay but not convincing and the strings of the guitar you could hear but you could not hear or feel them being actually played. I am very spoiled now with my present set-up so the task at hand will not be all that easy to surpass as this is a tool at that I refer to.
These speakers really do intrigue me and I look forward to hearing a pair to see if they are for me or not.
Hi David, you are most welcome. What is making German Physiks speakers so special and natural sounding is the DDD, the omnidirectional driver that is really unique and based on the Walsh type driver, but much improved and refined. It is a full range driver so the sound created by all German Physiks is almost seamless. In the Borderland/Carbon the crossover point is between 190 and 200 Hz, in the Loreley around 180 Hz: this means that there is no phase and time anomalies for the 95% of the frequency spectrum. Plus the driver radiates omnidirectionally making sound in the same way most instruments do. The carbon version of the DDD has proven to be extremely reliable even if pushed very hard and cannot be damaged when touched by fingers (while the titan version is obviously more fragile). If voices reproduction is important for you I can say that you'll find the DDD truly amazing and, to my ears, impossible to beat.
The Isis are really good speakers but for me I just found them not filling the room the way I wanted and some other issues which there is no need to go into. The room size is 35 ft by 28 ft ceiling is clean 9ft 3 inches. This room is in the basement of my home designated for two channel only.
Regarding music taste, I listen all types but recently find my self really enjoying vocals female and male. I like listening to Theatre pieces also like Oliver, Stage Heroes, I listen to Jazz and a bit of classical.
Regarding what I'm looking for well the full spectrum, a system that can do it all leaving me wanting to put more music on and non fatiguing.
Thanks for the contact info.
Shows really are tough that's why I don't even bother going.
I am going to send you over a pic of my other system with the MBL's and CAT's.
Hi Dev, yes I am not writing here since 1 year (curious, today it's exactly 1 year after my last post). I had the bigger German Physiks Loreley here, please see the new picture.
Of course large speakers are not easy to sell and you have to be prepared to lose much money if you buy them new. I see you had the Isis, they should be something really good but you were not completely happy with them. So the obvious questions are: what kind of sound or result are you looking for ? How big is the room where you want to put the speakers ? What are your tastes ?
You can get the German Physiks pricelist contacting Chris at Signals-SuperFi ([email protected]). During the last CES they were using the new Carbon that retails for almost the same price of your 101's. I was there and, despite a terrible sounding room (awful echoes in the mid frequency range because of the wall material and the extremely high ceiling) you felt the big potential of the system IMO. Yes, I listened to the system with the Berning amps briefly but I thought the speakers were too far away from each other and, to be honest, I preferred the sound in the Vitus Audio room at the Venetian (they used another pair of HRS120 with titan DDD).
As you correctly pointed out, there is no perfect speaker and you have to find which one let you enjoy more the music. For me, there is no doubt that it has to be a German Physiks. The only limit I see is the price (especially now with such a bad USD/Euro exchange rate) and the time you have to invest in order to let them deal at best with the room. Just consider that 3/4 of the sound energy is coming from reflections, so the best side wall and back wall distance has to be identified patiently walking around the speakers in your room. But isn't this a part of the game when you chose a top end speaker to live with ?
Hi Luke so anything new and interesting, it's been a while with any posts.
Regarding these speakers you have whats the list price.
I am now starting to research for a speaker for my designated room and have interest in this line but have no clue of list prices for any of them, nor have I ever heard them. In this room I use to have Avalon Isis speakers which I sold over a year ago along with all the gear so the room sits empty. The speakers were really nice but I found that they just did not fill my room the way I was wanting them to and some other negatives that I don't need to get into. I have had a few large speakers and find them very hard to sell off if for some reason I deside I don't want them so I want to make sure that I make the right choice this time arround doing more research and then listening and build around them.
Short list is the Rockport Altair, Audio Physic Kronos but non of these offer the Omni directional.
I have another system set-up but in a living room set-up which consist of MBL101E's which I really enjoy which replaced Eggleston speakers and you really can not compare the two.
I just recently purchased some new CAT JL3 Sig. MK2's mono blocks to see how they work with the MBL's. Were you at the Vegas show? if you were did you get to hear the Berning mono blocks set-up with the smaller Physic speakers, reason I ask is that I have placed a order for a pair of these to compare to my current amps. What was your thought if you did, are these amps all up to what the talk is?
Now to the not so good, well we all know all speakers have there weakness or faults, what have you found these to be with these current speakers you have.
nice to read you again and glad to know you enjoyed your stay in Genova: the climate there is noticeably warmer than here during fall/winter... if you ever come near to us, please stop by.
About German Physiks: they are not a mass-market or a marketing oriented company, so they don't do any advertisements to get more knowledge of their products. On the other side they take great care of each of their customers, who are often so affectioned to the product that very rarely decide to change with other speaker brands. Why ? I think the best answer is: try and listen for yourself. ;-) There are many well known musicians, orchestra directors, opera and pop singers that use German Physiks speakers as they are the closest to real musical instruments but, easy to imagine, these persons don't like to be named.
During the last 3/4 years the company updated its offer with different new and improved models. I believe they waited until now before to participate at shows for this reason. As you said, they were at CES in the Continuum room and they also displayed the same speakers during the last Tokio Show. In both cases, they got many compliments.
To reply at your question about MBL speakers: no, I didn't compare them side by side. But even if I had this opportunity, I would not display here the results: it would be unfair.
The system looks wonderful. We were in italy this fall but did not get near Venice - we spent time with friends in Genova - it was spectacular. Enough so that we are trying to figure out how to buy a small apartment with some friends so we can go there more regularly.
A question. The german physiks were 'in the news' for some time in the late 1990s early 2000, then I did not hear much from them. Any reason for this.
I too heard them in Vegas and thought them veyr good. Have you ever compared them to other omnidirectional speakers like the MBL.
Again it is a lovely system. I hope to sometime get near your region
Hi Elberoth2. The Egglestons are among the best dynamic speakers. Savoy's, in particular, are dynamic, extended and coherent and they don't take much space. They are also very transparent and revealing. That being said, you cannot really compare them with the German Physiks: an omnidirectional loudspeaker images in a more natural way, its sound appears more relaxed and involving since it is diffused in the room and not thrown towards you. What you may not expect from them is their huge dynamics and ability to play LOUD: you can actually reach extremely high spl's without strain, compression or any sign of stress from the speakers. The DDD omnidirectional driver is extremely fast, accurate and reliable: before to put the first commercial speaker on the market, the factory pursued R&D for 7 years on the DDD with an engineers and physicists team to reach the desired results. This means a lot for me.
Hello Mark. Actually Holger Mueller of German Physiks was demonstrating his PQS402 in the Continuum room: the sound was excellent, except the bass that was affected by the walls being just a partition of a much larger room. Thanks for your nice comments.
I heard the German Physiks at CES this year with a $95000.00 turntable, They are as you say, they are as real and live as I have ever heard. Amazing speakers !!
Hello, the Kuzma is a great TT and a very neutral sounding one but I have not compared it with many others to let me give you a response on this point, sorry. I assume that with a 20 watts class A motor it should be one of the very accurate anyway. All the best, luca
