I'm curious what the funky interactions were. Bear in mind that the X-2 is front ported and can literally be placed against the front wall without compromising the bottom end BUT at seriously narrowing the depth of the soundstage. Wilson purposely front ported the speakers so that they could be used in the Asian market where typically the rooms are much smaller than ours

oneobgyn December 23, 2008 09:03

Hi Bflowers,

I was thinking the speakers were going to really over whelm in size in your room and possibly look out of place but they don't and actually look really great!

I really like your colour choice, that would most likely be the colour I would choose also unless I went with some think bold like the blue or yellow.

Good to read things are happening for you, patience is all I can say and enjoy your journey.

Merry Christmas! and Happy Holidays!

dev December 23, 2008 05:12

System edited: Added some new photos. Had to change the name of the system From "Building Around Wilson Maxx 2" to something else since I no longer own the speakers. Sorry, but that's the best I could come up with. I suppose we ultimately build around whatever speakers we have. I finally spiked the speakers today with the help of a very knowledgeable audiophile friend (Marty again). I realized that they were too close to the rear wall and I was getting some funky interactions. I got them pretty close over the weekend, and we dialed them in enough today to spike them. The speakers are still evolving, but now I'm getting some Holy S#@! moments. More later.

bflowers December 22, 2008 23:14

If you think about it you are bringing your bottom up only between 21-22 Hz, far from huge. I bet you can do better by crossing over higher but not at the expense of adding too much mid bass

oneobgyn December 20, 2008 19:29

I would have you try crossing over a little higher as all your subs are doing are the very lowest of the bottom as compared to the X-2 which as I stated go down to 20 Hz. My subs cross IIRC at 45 Hz but I can verify that if you are interested

oneobgyn December 20, 2008 19:26

The sub is crossed over at 23 Hz The lowest crossover setting is 22Hz. Interestingly, the speakers were initially "bass shy", but I still hear each element of the speaker evolving. The bass is no longer lacking but is not quite as tight as I would like it. It seems to be a room and placement issue to me thus far.

bflowers December 20, 2008 19:22

Unoear

actually Brian has X-2 Series ll and not Maxx lll

IIRC you too also have Lamm amps

BTW I prefer to call it tubephilia and not tube sickness

Brian I do admit that I have been ragging on you lately about tubes BUT having spent a small fortune here on these speakers which IMO are second to none I want you to have that WOW experience. From some of your recent posts I would suspect that you are having problems with your sub(s) and where to cross over. If done correctly the sub should be completely invisible in the room and you should not be able to point to it. Bear in mind those X-2's play from 20 Hz to 20Khz and the ultra tweeter playing as high as 32 KHz. If you cross your subs over too high you will bring in to much midbass information and the sub will muddy up the sound let alone be distinctly obvious as to its location in the room. Phase and time alignment are likewise important. I would recommend that you and I talk privately as to set up but would also suggest you get a program such as RTA which can be downloaded from True RTA at a nominal price. When played with an inexpensive microphone purchased from Radio Shack and used through your laptop. It will take time and patience. It took me 3-4 months to get my Gothams dialed in properly. marty and I can help with this

oneobgyn December 20, 2008 18:07

As a point of clarification.
1. I like tubes! Not sure where the idea comes from that I do not. They are a bit more of a hassle, but I would get them again if they sound materially better than my current set up.

2. I don't buy equipment for how it looks! I do notice how it looks because in my setup I am staring at it. I do not think audio research stuff looks very good, but as I think I said in my last post and on many other occasions, that wouldn't stop me from getting an ARC piece if I liked the way it sounded. I think we have some misunderstanding there.

3. My system sounds great. Like all, I suppose, it could be better. I do have some room related issues I am still working through. We all have certain things that irk us. For me it's bass overhang and images that are too large or blend into each other. It took me a long time to get my speakers and traps positioned to deal with these issues with my previous speakers. I had hoped I would be able to plop these speakers in the same spot, but no luck there. I am close, but when I get the bass right, I mess up the image a bit. I really had my first meaningful time tweaking and listening last night. Perhaps, that's part of me not getting to Wow, yet. Maybe also too much of a perfectionist, but I imagine many on this site have that affliction.

4. I would love to get out to hear your system. I will be in the Bay Area in 2009 on at least one occasion. These days it is tough for me to get away because I have 3 kids under 5...enough said.

5. I have tried to get a Lamm to demo in the past based on your (oneobgyn) recommendation. I was unsuccessful. I was focused on upgrading the front end at that time anyway. I tried the Emm CDSA and liked the Boulder front end better. Whether I will find the same result with the amps remains to be seen. I have a likely source for a Lamm in the works now. I actually think the pictures of it look pretty cool. :-) I always keep an open mind about gear, but do like to proceed in a methodical fashion. I'll keep you posted.

I live in the DFW area.

bflowers December 20, 2008 15:10

Hello Brian,

Congratulations on your purchase the new Wilsons! You are much more sensible and I must say smarter than Doc and myself :-)

I have the X-2s and had the same experience that you are describing with your break-in of the MAXX 3's. The Wilsons magic started opening-up for me between 80-100 hrs, which caused me some distress while I was patiently waiting. Also, since you are still trying to optimize the set-up, I presume that you have not spiked the speakers yet.

Also, I really think that your front-end is first-class and you have to ignore Doc...he has been afflicted with a slow virus, commonly referred to as the tube-sickness.

unoear December 20, 2008 14:08

Dev

Great post and I agree completely even with your opinion that I am driving him to Lamm. In the end it is he who pays the piper gets to sit his ass in the sweetspot. My mantra in this hobby has always been "let your ears and your wallet be your judge." So Brian if you like Boulder I am cool with that BUT you really need to explore tubes. My biggest concern is you never heard the speaker and now that it is set up you have yet to hear that "wow". That tells me something is not right with your room, be it acoustic room treatment, front end, back end or speaker placement. IMO speaker break in is not a factor as there should have been a wow right out of the crate at first play with it getting even better as the drivers settle in after adequate burn in.
Brian I have invited you to my house many times starting when we met at CES 4 years ago. I even referred you to Paul for all of your HT as well as audio gear. I have been to your house and heard your system. As Dev says you owe it to yourself to come on west to my place for a listen. You have bought one of the top 3 speakers made in the world today and number one for me. I am stunned that you did not get that WOW at time of listening.
Just my $0.02

oneobgyn December 20, 2008 10:34

Bflowers,

I would say this hobby is most addictive and our search seems to be never ending including, speakers, amps, cables, sources and our room changes.

Wow! Impulse!
Even getting a great deal you still had to lay out some serious $$ compared to the Maxx 2's which you seemed to be very happy with.

My thinking was that you had listened to the prior version and/or made arrangements to hear Dave Wilson's or some one else's.

Regarding the Lamm product, I believe Oneobgyn is just trying to direct you into that direction as he feels it's a great match. In the end it's your system so if your preference is with the Boulder than that's all that counts.

I have learned to be really open minded to try pretty well anything recommended if all possible, some I have agreed with and some others I have scratched my head just wondering what the heck are you guys listening to.

I still recommend if all possible go to Oneobgyn place for a listen, that would answer allot of questions. With all the money invested the flight would be only a small amount and what you gain is worth many times more.

dev December 20, 2008 09:40

Hi Brian, where in Tx are you? I'm in Austin...I'd love to hear your set up, even with SS :)...

I have never heard Boulder equipment and I'm guessing Wilson's with top notch ss (like yours) sound killer. I Have heard the X2's series one's with Nagra tube front end (phone and pre) and Ayre MXR's also with the Luxman 60w SS amp. Very, very nice.

jfrech December 20, 2008 05:52

considering it takes less than a minute to bias the amps it is for me a no brainer.I guess that if something is tough to look at and you wouldn't own one, then what am I missing in the "eye candy comment"?
Please don't take offense, but IMO gear that is used in our sound system is for an auditory not a visual experience. BTW, the Lamm ML 2.1 is IMO the ugliest amp in the market today but with the X-2 speakers, the magic appears

oneobgyn December 19, 2008 23:18

I will kindly disregard your "eye candy" comment because it borders on insulting and I am sure that was not your intent. You have been saying that ever since I disparaged the pedestrian looks of the ref 3. I never said I wouldn't own one, just that it would be tough to look at. I have had tubes and liked them. My comments regarding tubes are based on my experience with the previous amp. My current amp is better than my previous tube amp, however. I am in no way wedded to any component in my room (other than perhaps these speakers that I just paid a fortune for). I expect to give the Lamm's a try and have already looked into getting a demo pair now that I have these highly sensitive speakers. I may like them better. Be careful what you wish for, I may ask you come to Texas once a year to bias them:-)

bflowers December 19, 2008 21:28

Brian...there is absolutely NO reason to avoid tubes. As far as heat is concerned the Lamm ML2.1's generate hardly any. You will never get to the next level or appreciate what tubes can do for those speakers. There is no concern for out of control bass and I am uncertain where that comment really comes from. You need to get over the issue of a component being "eye candy" and buy it for the sound it produces rather than the way it looks. Besides when the lights in the room are off no one can see the gear anyway. Unfortunately you have some ill preconceived notions about tubes that are just too far fetched. Finally I would love to prove to you that my 18 wpc SET Lamm amps will light up your ears more so than the 600 wpc SS Boulder amp that you love so much. I wish I, Marty and others who I see posting to your site can convince you in which direction to take your system to the next level. I had solid state (Krell 750 MCX) on my X-1 series lll's and then the huge ARC Ref 600 Mk lll tube amps. Once I did that I knew I would never go back to SS and then when I went from 600 wpc push-pull tube mono amps to an 18 wpc SET mono amp, I knew that this was the combination that truly makes music. Finally, Dave Wilson doesn't use Boulder in his sound room but rather uses the Lamm ML 2.1's. What more can I say

oneobgyn December 19, 2008 18:06

Dev
I made the decision to buy these speakers based on the highly rational emotion called "Impulse"! Of course I had the system sounding absolutely great and I should have learned from past experience to quit when I was happy. However, I did feel like I had reached the full potential of the Maxx's. I do believe that the speaker is the ultimate limit to where one can go. I like the wilson sound. I considered going for the Maxx 3, but a favorable deal came up on these so I took the plunge. I had never heard them before (but that would be difficult in that it is a new speaker and no one locally has one to listen to). The Boulder stuff is great in that it is dead neutral and very detailed. I do think the components take some effort to create synergies. For example when I upgraded the DAC and preamp, my previous MBL 1521A could not keep up. When I got the 1621A, it showed what a performance gap existed between the two transports. What is interesting is that it does open up some different options for amplification. I like the tube sound, but not the tube issues. I am not a tinkerer. I have small kids and little free time. I hate out of control bass and my room can get warm. Many reasons to avoid tubes. That said, the speakers continue to break in and improve. I am getting closer on the placement. I am really having a lot of fun with them. I'll post some pictures soon

bflowers December 19, 2008 16:50

Bflowers,

looking back just 2 years ago when I made a purchase from you and present Wow!, now that's an upgrade.

I'm happy for you.

What made you go with these speakers? did you do comparison to others? if so what and what were you findings.

The MAXX3 looks very interesting also.

I have been following along with Oneobgyn system which is absolutely amazing and right down my alley, both video and 2 channel. I have not heard it but from what I read sounds very intriguing.

I had mentioned to you that I had two set-ups at the time, not sure if you recall it's been a while now. In my designated rm I had a pair of Avalon Isis speakers which I finally sold a while back so that room is sitting empty, what a shame.

Why might you ask is that room sitting empty, well I actually bought MBL 101E's to replace the Isis but when the MBL's arrived aprox. a year ago now the Isis speakers still were not sold. Haveing another set-up in the living room area which I had Eggleston Andra 2's I decided to do the switch and set-up the MBL's to break them in. Well the MBL's have cost me dearly, mainly because they are my favs. so they are staying where they are. That system set-up was suppose to be a moderate one, oh well. I bought some CAT JL3 Sig. MK2 mono blocks at the same time thinking my amp search would be over, well unfortunately I fell victim as so many others have had, not being a good experience what so ever so I sold them and I'm presently looking at replacing them.

Once I have this set-up completed then onto the designated room but in the mean time I have been doing research regarding which speakers interest me for this room and one on my list being the speakers you just got.

For what it's worth I seem to be leaning towards Oneobgyn's component choice. I already have a ARC REF3 which I really enjoy and have heard the Lamm amps he uses which I really like also, have not heard the Playback Designs System MS5 he has but is on my list as I have only heard positive remarks.

If I was you I would give your speakers a few months of break-in time with dialing them in with your current electronics and then go and to his place for a listen. You will then have a reference and see (hear) which you prefer. I will say I don't seem to be a Boulder guy (great product) my self and will be shocked if you stay with them long term especially with your current speakers.

Are you going to post some new pic's, maybe leave one of your current set-up.

Look forward to reading more .....

dev December 18, 2008 16:27

better sooner than later :)

oneobgyn December 18, 2008 09:16

Dev
I don't know if "refreshing" is the word:-). Make no mistake, they sound great already. I can't pick one thing that stands out, as they are better in all respects than the Maxx's. The midrange and treble are much better. I thought I had room related bass problems (I guess we all do to some extent), but the bass is smoother with no boom. It could be tighter though I expect. According to others with these speakers I still have significant break in time remaining. The overall presentation is more at ease that the Maxx's as well. My main issues now have to do with ultimate placement. I know it's not right yet because I can hear the speakers (they haven't dissapeared yet as the Maxx's had). I also used to run my sub in 2 channel crossed over at 23Hz. I haven't figured that part out yet either. Should have a little time to play with it over the weekend.

I have never heard Oneobgyn's system. With all the pressure to use tubes, he may force me to experiment with that...later!

bflowers December 18, 2008 09:13

Hi Bflowers, I have to say it's refreshing to read when someone such as yourself has just received such expensive speakers and so far seem to be waiting to hear that "holy ..." I hope it comes, did you hear Oneobgyn's set-up prior to your purchase?

The physical presence compared to your Maxx2's in your room must be an experience all in it's self.

Look forward to reading your on going thoughts and congrats on your new speakers.

dev December 17, 2008 18:35

There better be some "Holy something" as much as these speakers cost:-)

bflowers December 17, 2008 15:53

It took well over 100 hours before they "began" to open up. Brian , as per prior conversations, the Holy Cr#$!moment comes when you see the light and get tube preamp and amp...not before. I think Marty has also iterated the same to you

oneobgyn December 17, 2008 15:28

The speakers were installed monday night. The dealers did their best to get them in position yesterday. Marty was nice enough to come by and assist them. Marty is one of the most knowlegable audiophiles out there and I am grateful for his help. When I got home from work, the speakers already sounded differently than on day one (and I liked them on day one after about 45 minutes). They still have some breaking in to do, and the final positioning will need some work. Marty told me that you felt like it took at least 4 days for them to open up. I can see that process unfolding. They are already better in each category I could name than the Maxx's. I'm still waiting for the Holy Cr#$! moment. I will report the progress as they break in more. Those are some giant speakers! They look great in Aspen Silver with the black grilles

bflowers December 17, 2008 14:55

Brian is likely in a state of awe currently. Maybe he'll report back to us in a few days :)

jfrech December 16, 2008 18:17

So Brian I would have to say that with the unveiling of these speakers today, you should have a smile on your face as they really are "that good"

oneobgyn December 16, 2008 16:48