What would you think of a manufacturer (BMC) and distributor (Aaudio Imports) who refuse to support their products when after identifying, notifying, and working with them to correct the sonic defect and then waiting 12 more months for the problem to be corrected receives the following email?
On Jan 7, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Brian Ackerman wrote:
Dear John,
I tried to reach out to you many times and you ignored me.
Also both Carlos and I felt that you were over-driving the amplifier.
If we find out that you are spreading rumors about BMC or Aaudio imports I can assure you that we will take legal action against you..
You received special pricing on the C1 amplifier, which is now discontinued and has been replaced with the CS2 amplifier.
I suggest you sell your C1 and buy something else that you think will be a better match for your speakers.
Talking trash about us wont get you anywhere but in trouble.
Regards, Brian
From: Brian Ackerman [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 12:24 AM To: John Subject: RE: snippet 3
Hi John,
I guess that I am asking you to wait for the upgrade since this should not also solve your problem, but also improve the sound of your amp.
Florianw, you seem a little presumptuous if not unbright in your knowledge of BMW's, and M5's in particular.
I swapped out the orig. M5 wheels for late model M5 wheels because the originals really dated the 2000 model and the late model M5's are some of the coolest looking wheels I've ever come across.
If you look closely, you'll see the red leather inserts throughout the interior. As far I know, only the M5 models offered this feature, but I could be wrong.
The previous owner had swapped out the original spoiler for a carbon fiber spoiler, which I despised but it was permanently mounted.
I sold the car about a year ago, so it really doesn't matter.
But for whatever it's worth, I still have the original spoiler in my garage. You dork. :)
Hi, Tboooe, and thanks for the compliment. Funny enough I never was a big fan of BMW until a couple of years ago as I always thought they were just a slightly refined yuppy car slightly better than a Cadillac. Yes, I'm feeling pretty dumb.
But my attitude started to change when my best friend whom I've known since grade school purchased a cool black 645i coupe. After 2 years he didn't hesitate to 'downgrade' to a 2006 M3 with comp pkg and today he owns two 2006 M3's with comp packages but the cars reside in different cities and one's a bit more purist or classic than the other.
Please keep me posted on the M6.
BTW, if anybody runs into Dbld (David Donohue), a top flight professional race car driver whose postings you can see above, please tell him I'm waiting for him outside. :)
Dan, yes there seems to be quite a buzz about the P-9. But again, 15% to one person and his playback system could well be 5% in the next system, or 25%.
Email me about the line conditioners, which ones you have, and how much you wish for each as I may have a buyer.
But I would also suggest your reconsidering before selling. I've actually had a several customers do just that and then 3 or 6 months later contact me asking if I had any others because they realized the significants of their benefits.
In some ways, it's may be like going from a 19" TV to a 50" TV. Sometimes we don't appreciate what the 50" TV does until we go back to a 19" TV.
Hi, Dan. In my opinion, the cost is well worth it. Especially since the 20% improvement I mentioned was not exactly comparing apples to apples as that was right out of the box and within 48 hours burn-in. In other words I do a few things with my components to extract more performance out of them and it takes time for this process to settle in.
The text in my previous post was a cut & paste of an email I sent out over a week ago. I was not able to realize the full benefits of the V2 upgrade until last Thursday, at which point I could compare apples to apples so-to-speak. Hence, it would be more appropriate for me to say that the the final results in my system would be more on the order of about 35% improvement over the stock SEs.
Sorry for the confusion, Dan. I was just trying to save time by cutting and pasting from an old email when I posted earlier.
I should have a P-9 in about 3 weeks. A friend in the industry claims the P-9 is about a 15% improvement over the P-8. I know that Nuforce can't seem to keep any in stock.
As for the value of an upgrade, worth it, not worth it, when you consider what some people are willing to spend on far less performance gains than this, I think it's well worth it. But, like any other upgrade, the value of the upgrade has everything to do with one's budget, how much one is able to extract from their system, and an audible difference between the old and new. For example, if I replaced my speaker cables tonight with zip cord, I'd venture to guess that this or many other upgrades probably would not be worth it.
Are you still using the Foundation Research line conditioners?
Recently upgraded the Nuforce Ref 9 SE amps to V2. The V2 offers a very nice refined and musical improvement with even better bass defintion and control.
The V2 upgrade produces a very detailed, realistic, and musically pleasing presentation, and improved continuity. None of which are lacking in the stock SE amps but the V2 simply takes things further.
After just 2 days of burn-in I'd venture perhaps a 20% gain over the stock SE amps at both the micro- and macro-dynamic levels. Considering how good I think the SE amps are stock, a 20% percent improvement over an already excellent performer to me translates to excellent and exciting gains. The sense of realism is uncanny.
Rob and Garrett, thanks for the very nice comments. They are very much appreciated.
Actually, Robert, on the day you were visiting the Legacy HDs were less than 6 days old and the system itself had only been up for 2 weeks.
Things have continued to significantly improve over the last week (for several calculated reasons) and earlier today I was able to make improvements in the bass regions. Still not quite up to par with my other speakers' bass in the other room but most of the boomy regions have disappeared along with a few low frequency suckouts. It's entirely possible I may not be able to achieve quite the same extremely tight and well-defined bass in this room with these speakers. The biggest issue appears to be the corners behind the speakers just want to load up on the bass not to meniton that the 11 1/2 ft room width may also be just a little much to ask for larger speakers. But who knows, in two days or in 6 months I just may find the least compromising location. My last room took nearly 9 months to find the optimal location (if it was indeed optimal).
I too am quite impressed with the Legacy speakers. Extremely musical adding a layer of refinement and continuity that was previously missing.
Anyway, thanks again. You're compliments are indeed kind and appreciated.
Hi, Dave, it's good to hear from you. BTW, real cool looking amp stand you have there!!! :) I was browsing a'gon about a week ago and came across your system and meant to comment then.
The BPTs are a fine cable especially for the price. But I just have not met a cable yet to meet or exceed the full out performance, refinement, and smoothness of the Audio Teknes. They also add a real sense of musicality and magic that I've not yet heard elsewhere. But the double-cryo-treatment versions are phenomenal. I can put you in contact with someone if you're interested. I have been meaning to contact Audio Tekne to become a dealer for their cables. Also I do have 2 extra sets of ics and one pair of scs lying around here somewhere if you'd like to audition them. They're not double-cryo-treated but they may still be the best you've ever heard.
Dave, I don't know if you recall but I became a dealer a about 18 months ago. In addition to the Nuforce products I also carry the Foundation Research line conditioners, a few other mfg'ers, and most recently Legacy. I just received the Focus HDs a few days back and in about 4 weeks I should receive a pair of Whispers. But I've had somebody already contact me about the Whispers so who knows I may never see them.
I could have sworn that you owned the Whispers when you auditioned the Nuforce amps, especially since I never knew you once owned the Focus 20/20s.
My understanding is that the HD version is a significantly faster speaker than the 20/20s. Legacy did away with the rear woofer and replace the cone mid-range with a ribbon for several reasons.
Hey, shouldn't you be out there running laps or has racing season not started yet?
All my best,
-John ps, I'll let you know how the Nuforce SE amps match up with the Legacy HDs. The Nuforce amps had no problem whatsoever driving my inefficient Aerial 10T speakers (86db into 4 ohm loads) at casual listening levels of even 104 - 110 db. I know the HDs are much more efficient, but efficiency ratings don't always tell the whole story. I'm not anticipating any issues here but one never knows.
So you're the one. Yes, Tom, the Foundation Research line conditioners do many positive things and are the best I know.
Most don't seem to realize that a properly engineered line conditioner will most (if not) always produce far better sonic benefits than any power cable alone can do. And though not inexpensive, one could purchase an excellent line conditioner and cable for the price of some of the more expensive power cables.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear Ken's cables sound so impressive. I know he had the audio teknes prior to and that is what I'm using now. The Teknes are a fabulous ic and sc and the best I'm aware of. But imagine my surprise when their performance nearly doubled on top of that after I had them double-cryo-treated by Cryo-Nebraska. First I installed the ics and upon first listen I thought I ruined the ics (the Audio Teknes are a cold, brittle sound when new or after cryo-treating). But 2.5 days later they absolutely soared and retained all of their previous characterics and especially their smoothness. The Audio Tekne scs were always a bit less impressive than the ics and considered them only marginally better than some other scs. I then installed the double-cryo-treated scs and it took roughly 5 days to burn-in and now they are easily the best scs I've heard.
I guess what I'm saying is I think that Ken's cables are going to have some competition.
My system's been down for 3 months now as we've been going thru some remodeling includig a new listening room. I'm within days of completing the listening room but it's going to take me a good month or more to get the system back to it's previous performance (if I can get it back) and I also just received a new pair of Legacy Focus HD speakers (also in Rosewood) that I'll be installing and buring in soonish.
It's good to hear from you, Tom, and keep me posted on the ics.
-John p.s. someday I'll have to part with the 10Ts but it won't be easy to let them go. No matter what else I do to the system, the 10Ts continue to surprise me at how they are always able be as dynamic and refined and open and disappearing as the rest of the system dictates. In some ways, the 10Ts seem almost classic.
Tom, I've not used power cables per se for the last 6 years. At least since I was introduced to the Foundation Research dedicated line conditioners which include their own built-in power cable.
These are the only 'power cables' I've used with most any of my components and unless an odd mfg'er is doing something funny with the AC in their component, it typically works universally well regardless of component.
Tom, without going back to dig for David's original question and my response, the short answer is no, I did not perform side-by-side comparisons with the Nuforce as some of the amps I owned or listened to critically or casually transpired over the last 7 or so years and over the span of about 5 different iterations of my own system. Moreover, a number of these amps were never in my system but in systems that should have otherwise easily outperformed my own.
If I said as you quoted, then my statement was indeed in err or at the very least misleading and I apologize. In fact, I'd have to say that I probably just glanced at the question and started typing rather than giving prior careful consideration to the question and my response.
More than likely I was making a statement of general and/or specific experiences with in-direct comparsions over a long period of time rather than direct comparisons over a short period of time.
Thanks for pointing that out. I feel much better now. :)
Interesting. I don't think I've mentioned anything about a 'simple tweak'. But one does exist and simple is relative, right? And it just so happens to be the most impressive improvement I've encountered or even heard about. Regrettably, I'm sworn to secrecy at this juncture because of others' business opportunities.
I am extremely pleased with the UX-3SE and I emphasize the word extremely. But I cant speak much for the older non-SE and non-Limited versions. It is my understanding that the SE versions contain over 100 parts that were upgraded over the UX-3. And of course the build quality and aesthetics of the old and new are second to none.
After about 280 of break-in the UX-3SE was at least 1 if not 2 leagues apart from the APL 3910, however one might measure that. I simply was not expecting this level of performance increase at all. To be honest, I wasnt expecting any increase. Some of my colleagues refused to believe my claims until they heard it for themselves. Never underestimate the power of brainwashing for I too was a victim. :)
Regarding the Nuforce amps I could say much the same about their performance. My DNA-2 Rev A amp was my pride and joy. But at the repeated insistence of an audio distributor I know, I accepted delivery of a pair of the Ref 9s. After about 80 hours of burn-in (it needed about 140 hours total) I immediately put the 100 lbs. DNA-2 Rev A amp up for sale and it was gone in a matter of days.
The Nuforce Ref 9 SE amps are at least 30% better than the standard Ref 9 amps. Much of the reviews on these amps are quite accurate, except for perhaps the political class D amp issue from TAS a few months back.
With regard to modifications, Im hesitant to say here that the typical performance of the Esoteric and Nuforce components is illustrating just a fraction of their full potential.
It's a little difficult for me to specifically describe the performance of the Nuforce P-8 preamp. Only because I installed the Esoteric and the P-8 at the same time and both were new.
But I can say that the P-8 does not seem to induce any sonic harm that I am aware of. Given that qualification and the level of performance that I'm hearing I would say that the P-8 is absolutely in the same league as the others.
Tvad, I appreciate what you're saying. In the last 6 years I've owned 6 or 7 preamps ranging from $1100 to $8500, including the Pass Labs X-1, X2.5, the Placette Active Linestage, and the Chapter Audio Preface preamps.
But you might consider that if there is a preamp that brings out some very unique and/or special performance gains with the APL, the chances are probably pretty good that the exact same or similar preamp could also equally benefit the Esoteric.
Hi Grant (Tvad), I appreciate your position but I heard my APL with the Nuforce P-8 for several days in the Nuforce room at CES. And I've also heard other owners' opinions about a pre-amp v. no preamp. In fact, a local friend used a moon p-5 pre-amp (not the best nor the worst) with his APL and eventually he removed and sold the preamp and now runs his APL directly into the Nuforce SE amps. Actually your's is the first I've heard preferring the APL with a preamp.
At CES we were still asked to remove the APL because they thought the Marantz (SA-11 I believe) was slightly better (it was a close call). To the best of my knowledge the APL tweak-gone-bad was limited to a buzzing sound and to a slight de-emphasis in the bass/mid-bass.
Nevertheless, this simply is not the caliber that the UX-3SE plays in. It is truly in an entirely different league and I can't imagine any preamp changing that one iota.
As I've told a handful of friends and associates over the last few week the UX-3SE improvements are more impressive than the combined performance gains from my upgrading:
o The McCormack DNA-2 Rev A amp to the Nuforce Ref 9.02 amp and then the incredible Nuforce SE amps.
o The excellent Foundation Research LC-2 and LC-1 line conditioners to the incredible LC-100 lcs.
o The Sony SCD-1 cdp to the APL 3910.
In my opinion, each of these individual upgrades was rather significant.
If I combine those improvements then I begin approaching the gains from the UX-3SE. This should be relatively easy for others to verify.
Dan, my APL had the latest and greatest AKM DACS, upsampling, etc. Everything except for the linear power supply option and an email from Alex confirms this.
Prior to going into this purchase I heard the X-01 compared directly to my crippled APL at CES last January. Crippled because of an APL tweak gone bad. As a result of this surprise tweak e had to remove the APL from the Nuforce room and Alex and I and a few other people took the unit to the ESP room where Mike installed it and we were able to compare it his loaner Esoteric X-01. Most of us thought the sound was a toss-up but Mike decided to use my APL for the remainder of the show.
So with that little prelude I'm perhaps as surprised as anybody as I actually thought I'd be taking a performance hit by going to the UX-3SE. And hearing the UX-3SE now I can't help but wonder if EPS' loaner X-01 was right out of the box without any burn-in.
By purchasing the special edition I thought I just might come close to the performance of the APL. After 4 days of burn-in a potential buyer for the APL came to my house to listen to the APL. Since the Esoteric was already plugged in he heard that unit first and then we plugged in the APL and let it warm up for about 30 minutes before critical listening.
The would-be buyer said he thought it was a toss-up between the Esoteric and the APL and if anything he'd lean towards the Esoteric. About 5 days later (9 days of burn-in), the Esoteric really soared and by about the 10th day the performance was overwhelming enough that I took 2 days off work just to listen.
In summary, based on the X-01 experience I had low expectations going into the Esoteric purchase and needless to say I was more than mildly suprised to hear such dramatic performance gains from the Esoteric.
Earlier this week a friend directed me to Srajan's review on 6moons.com last year of the standard X-03 and how he compared it to the $43k Zanden Transport/DAC combo which I've never heard. In fact, Srajan speculated that 7 out of 10 listeners would choose the Esoteric over the Zanden based on performance and that 10 out of 10 would chose the Esoteric once they discovered its price. In a followup review on the Esoteric Reclocker connected to the X-03, he said there was perhaps a 3% performance gain but said the X-03 by itself was 'scarily good'.
Keep in mind that Srajan was speaking of the X-03. I'm told the UX-3SE has over 100 parts that were upgraded from the standard unit. However, the brochures only states that they addressed some vibration control issues and upgraded internal wiring.
At the same time I purchased the Esoteric I also installed a brand new Nuforce P-8 preamplifier since I did not need one prior to this with the APL. One person had suggested that I re-install the APL using the P-8 preamp and I said no I was not going to waste my time especially since everyone I know claims the APL sounds best without a preamp.
A friend of mine who used to own my APL and has now been waiting for over 12 months for his APL 3910 with linear power supply option just received his UX-3SE two days ago and was impressed with certain aspects of the unit right out of the box. About 8 more days should prove or disprove my claims since, except for speakers, he has the exact same system and me. And his ears are far more trained than my own.
Of course, Dan, you're always welcome to come up to Oregon for a listen. In fact, I have friend here who still owns the exact same version of APL 3910 I had so it should be pretty easy to compare. But once you hear the system with the UX-3SE, you may not want to bother.
BTW, I'm also told that I should receive a significant performance improvement if I switch over to XLRs between the Nuforce pre and the amps. And the several reviews on the X-03 both reviewers claim that best sonics are thru the XLR connections. The P-8 does not have balanced inputs but it does have balanced outputs. And the about to be released P-9 has both. Some new XLR ics should be arriving any day now so this could be interesting to see what if any gains can be had.
System edited: Recently replaced the APL 3910 which, despite all the quirks surrounding the company, is a fine sounding cdp with the recently released Esoteric UX-3SE (Special edition). Compared to the APL, the UX-3SE is all-together in a different league in essentially every category. The UX-3SE is by far the most refined and significant performance upgrade I've yet experienced. In fact, I've been a very strong advocate with the notion that the amplifier (good or bad) is the key component that determines the ultimate sound quality of a given system. The Nuforce SE amps only reinforced that opinion. But the outstanding and perhaps near state-of-the-art performance of the Esoteric UX-3SE has caused me to reconsider. Nothing short of awesome.
Good to hear from you, Dave. Let me say right up front that I am a relatively new Nuforce dealer.
To answer your question, yes, I have compared the Nuforce amps to other high-end amps. I've listened to any number of Levinson, Krell, Theta Dreadnaught, Tenors, Halcros, Sim Audio, BAT, Jeff Rowlands, Bryston, Classe, Dartzeel, and a host of other mentionables, both critically and casually.
My previous amp the McCormack DNA-2 Revision A amp exceeded the performance of every amp I've heard. Especially in speed and bass. My amp before the DNA-2 Revision A was the highly acclaimed McCormack DNA-2 LAE (Limited Anniversary Edition) amp that Peter Moncrief rated in 1999 as the best solid state amp available. But the DNA-2 Revision A amp made the LAE sound like a typical off-the-shelf solid state amp in comparison.
Last September and after 3 years of extreme pleasure with the DNA-2 Revision A amp, I received a pair of Nuforce amps to evaluate. It was not until perhaps 80 hours into the burn-in that I realized the Nuforce Ref. 9.01 amps were equal to or better than the DNA-2 Revision A in every category. Not night and day better, but better including better transarency, tonality, more revealing, faster, and more refined. Translation: the Nuforce Ref 9s are simply more musical, more dynamic, and more accurate.
It was at this 80 hour mark that I put my McCormack up for sale and inquired about becoming a Nuforce dealer. (I was not a dealer at this point in time but I knew then that these little musical amps were something special).
The Ref 9.01s continued to improve upwards of 140 hours. The Ref 9.02s are even better, the Premiums better still, and the Ref 9 SEs (Special Edition) make the Ref 9.02s sound a little bland and boring in comparison.
Also don't forget that The Absolute Sound recently reviewed the 9.02 and informally compared their performance to the ASR Emitter II ($35k) amp and to several other amps TAS considers the cat's meow. The 9.02 received TAS' Golden Ear and Amplifier of the Year awards. And rightfully so.
I recently received the Nuforce 9 Special Edition amps and was very impressed. But I had to ship them off to a customer at the 80 hour burn-in mark. While waiting for another shipment of the SEs I've hardly listened to any music. The SEs are that good. And I would not be suprised if somebody reviews the SEs as an amp without equal.
I don't know where you live Dave, but I have a mint demo pair of silver Nuforce Ref 9.02 Premiums with about 500 hours on them that I'd happy to send to you for your evaluation.
Levir, I've never owned a DNA-225 amp. However, for 3 years I owned a DNA-2 Revision A amp and was my favorite amp of any I've owned or heard.
I sold the DNA-2 Rev. A after I auditioned the Nuforce Ref 9 amps. As good as the custom-built DNA-2 Rev. A amp was, the Nuforce amps were simply better and more refined in every sonic category.
The fact that the Nuforce amps are 85 lbs. lighter, significantly smaller, and far less expensive than the DNA-2 Rev. A were also contributing factors.
Just added the incredible Nuforce Ref 9 SE amps and three just as incredible Foundation Research LC-100 line conditioners, one for each mono amp and one for the APL.
At $3000 msrp each, these LCs are not cheap and at a theoretical 100 amp current capacity, one may consider these overkill but their performance makes it worth every penny. The smaller 10 amp and 30 amp models will be out later this year.
I'm convinced more than ever that line conditioning is an absolute foundational fundamental for any adequate or better system.
I recently became a dealer and took on both Nuforce and Foundation Research product lines as well as a few other mfg'ers, but that doesn't mean the wow! factor is any less significant.
Hi, Ray. The design has been finished for some time now but since CES 2006 has come and gone, I've not yet pushed the button to have the design prototyped.
I made the statement in my previous post that I would not be surprised if the Nuforce room received best sound at CES. I hate to eat my own words but this simply was not the case.
The sonics were surprising good and I think all the ingredients to potentially sound far better were there. But considering all of the amps, preamp, cabling, line-conditioners, and speakers were brand new right out of the box(not burned in), along with a few other self-induced limitations, it simply was not meant to be. Furthermore, the APL 3910 really comes into its own when it is plugged directly into the amps. But since this was somewhat of a debut for the Nuforce preamp, they preferred it remain in the main system.
I visited only a handful of rooms during my few days there. Out of that handful, I thought the best sound was at the APL Hi-Fi room over at THE Show where Alex Paychev had his own custom speakers, cables, amp, and his brand new APL modified Esoteric UX-01.
Nrchy, if you didn't have your Harley with you, that may explain my not recognizing you. Bon told me some time ago that you and I conversed at THE Show. Sorry if I didn't put 2 and 2 together.
I've not actively sold my racks yet, though I've sold several prototypes. Of course I'm always willing to take a custom order but as for actively selling my racking systems, I'm just not sure the demand is there for performance-oriented racking systems.
To be frank, I think that proper line conditioning and proper vibration control are the two final frontiers in high-end audio for the majority in high-end audio. Until people can actually witness the A/B type differences in a familiar system I just don't think the demand for proper vibration control and proper line conditioning will be there for some time to come.
Actively selling my racks also takes a certain amount of investment dollars to do things right. This is a struggle for me as I want to do things the right way, but with 2-channel dying and vibration control at the bottom of most people's list of priorities, the stakes seem just a bit high. So I'm just taking a back seat for the time being. But if somebody wanted a custom built racking system, I'm certainly geared to design and produce.
Dave, yes things can get a little viscious around here. I'll admit that I've been guilty of it a bit myself in my past but I also attempted to limit my attacks to 2 or 3 individuals.
The APL 3910 is an awesome unit that has its own hybrid digital/analog attenuator, output transformers, 6 AKM dacs, etc., etc.. It should still do video although I haven't tried. Multi-channel I'm not sure about.
The sonics are far superior without the APL connected to a pre-amp.
And boy it is ugly. This ugliness is a very tough pill for me to swallow as I despise ugly gear. Especially black ugly gear.
I've only had it for a week now (though it's been pretty well burned in). The APL connected to my Nuforce amps has produced the most dynamic and life-like presentation I've yet heard. Of course proper line conditioning and vibration control helps immensely. :)
APL is now mod'ing the Esoteric UX-01 which is actually pretty nice looking even in black. This unit sports Esoteric's NEO transport which is supposedly the greatest transport made. Rumor has it that the APL mod'ed UX-01 is far superior to the APL mod'ed 3910 strictly because of the phenomenal transport build quality.
I believe APL is selling the APL UX-01 for about $16000 and he is now taking orders. The $16k actually isn't so bad when one considers that the UX-01 off-the-shelf is $14k. APL still puts about $6k labor and parts into the UX-01 only he is able to acquire the Esoteric at much better prices.
This could be the end-all ucdp. Have you been to www. aplhifi.com? APL will be at CES this year as will Nuforce. In fact, Nuforce will be using my APL 3910 and several of my racks.
In the Nuforce exhibit will be Foundation Research new line conditioners, the LC-100s. I've not listened to the LC-100s yet but from what I hear they are something else!
If I could be prophetic for a moment, I would not be surprised in the least if Nuforce is awarded best sound at CES. And no it won't be because of my racks especially since they take a minimum of 8 days for the settling in process to occur.
Thanks, Ray, you too. I will not be displaying my new rack design at CES as my vendors could not provide the finished materials in time.
David, I am aware that air-borne vibrations are 3-D. But it doesn't matter how or where vibrations are captured by the component chassis. The bottom line is they will gain entry and they need a way out.
I saw your new thread and I wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft. pole. Life's too short. :)
For somebody like Star Sound or even myself to flat out suggest to the masses that coupling is superior to de-coupling would in essence potentially offend every single enthusiast and mfg'er using kitty litter, innertubes, tennis balls, cork, rubber, sand, mdf, Plexiglas, etc.. That covers about 93% of the entire industry.
Like you, I too think performance should be the number one priority (after all, this is supposedly a 'high-end' audio hobby and forum) and right behind that (for me also) is aesthetics. In fact, my co. slogan says "Aesthetics surpassed only by performance". I thought it was kinda' catchy and hopefully accurate. The aesthetics draw people in but hopefully it's the performance after an 8 to 10 day settling in period that really bowls 'em over.
Nothing worse than spending a lot on something so ugly. I recently received my highly acclaimed APL 3910 ucdp which is a heavily modified Denon 3910. But she ain't pretty.
Cute, Mdhoover :) Ray, I hope you don't take this the wrong way when I say, I like you a lot! I think my wife does too. Thank you very much for those kind words.
I have a few new designs ready to prototype but one that I hope will be ready for the NuForce exhibit at CES in 10 days. That is if I can get it done in time as it has to ship by next Friday and it hasn't even begun yet).
If it comes together, it just may be my overall most practical, unobtrusive, and aesthestically pleasing rack to date with uncompromising performance. At the very least it should hopefully compliment and contrast nicely with the smaller yet huge sounding NuForce amps.
If not, then NuForce will be using my stainless steel What Rack?.
I don't think I've ever publicly stated that my racking systems handle vibrations better than others? I have my own thoughts about my designs verses the competition but I don't think I've ever specifically compared mine to theirs in this forum or elsewhere.
But if you're going to force the issue, I'll do my best to somewhat briefly explanation why I think my racks are potentially sonically superior to many others when it comes to handling vibration:
1. One must choose the superior vibration controlling methodology. My designs strictly adhere to the resonance energy transfer methodology (aka coupling) rather than the isolation / dampening methodology (aka de-coupling). To the best of my knowledge, it is phyically impossible to completely isolate anything from vibrations. If that is true, then many who claim 'complete isolation from vibration' have already indicated that they've fallen short of the mark.
I do recognize that one can affect sonics for better or worse from a dampening perspective but that's little more than a crapshoot in my opinion.
2. One must recognize and properly address the source of the most harmful types of vibrations. There are 3 primary sources of vibrations / resonance. Air-borne, floor-borne, and internal-borne (power supplies, motors, etc.). My limited research concludes that air-borne vibrations induce far more sonic harm than either floor-borne or internally generated vibrations. The vast majority of other mfg'ers have concluded that floor-borne vibrations are the biggest culprit for inducing unwanted vibrations and have designed their products as such. If this is true, then by that fact alone, my designs should stand a better chance at controlling vibrations since my racks were designed (hopefully successfully) at addressing the most harmful vibrations.
3. Assuming 1 and 2 above are accurate assessments, then one must execute their design in accordance. That includes using the right materials and tremendous rigidity. Kitty litter, Plexiglas, tennis balls, sand, bicycle inner-tubes, sorbethane, hockey pucks, all have their place in life. But not in audio.
If it is true that there are 3 primary sources of vibration and that air-borne vibrations are by far are the biggest culprit, then one simply needs to consider a few issues to determine whether a racking system design has potential to be executed successfully.
o Air-borne and internally-generated vibrations will enter the component. The question is, do they have an exit path?
o Floor-borne vibrations can for the most part be prevented from entering a component by use of kitty litter, sorbethane, cork, inner-tubes, etc..
o Regardless of the source, vibrations are always captured by an object in a moment-in-time. However, captured vibrations can only dissipate over a period of time. Like a reverberation.
So if I assumed, like the majority, that the biggest culprit is floor-borne vibrations, then I cannot properly address the air-borne and internally-generated vibrations. At least not with the same strategy because preventing one type of vibration from entering the chassis most certainly will squash the other two sources of vibration from exiting the chassis.
On the other hand, if I assumed (and I do) that air-borne vibrations are by far the biggest culprit, then I can automatically address the internerally-generated vibrations at the same time. And through the use of a proper mechanical conduit, in this case Star Sound's Audio Points, I may also be able to somewhat minimalize any floor-borne vibrations from entering the component.
I'm rambling but ultimately my goal is to treat resonace energy much like electricity. It's always seeking ground and I want to design my racks to help expedite that process of transfering resonance energy to ground. That is to transfer those captured vibrations away from the component, into the racking system, into the sub-flooring system, and back to ground. And to do so as quickly as possible so as not to allow the vibrations captured in a moment-in-time to remain and exponentiate within. With my designs and with Star Sound's highly acclaimed Audio Points, I hope to accomplish that.
I'll close with this little analogy.
Think of sitting in your car at a traffic light and you're hoping to isolate / dampen yourself from the horrific subwoofer vibrations generated 2 cars behind you that's annoying the heck out of you, you're rearview mirror, and every other part of your car. Your's and the offending car's air-filled tires have obviously done little or nothing to isolate you from feeling the affects of these vibrations. Neither have your cushioned seats or rolled up windows or the 5000 lbs. of metal surrounding you.
In affect, your car is just like a component chassis and your air-filled tires are like rubber, sorbethane, cork, kitty-litter, et al footers.
To demonstrate how far off the mark some mfg'ers are, they erroneously believe that these vibrations are floor-borne (street-borne) induced and have told me so in this forum. Yet the vibrations from a a jackhammer pulverizing the sidewalk or street right outside your car cannot even compare to the vibrations generated from the subwoofers two cars back. But there's just no convincing some.
I'm no scientist, nor do I pretend to be. But if you care to read some white papers on the subject I recommend checking out StarSound.biz's web-site. Star Sound is the front-runner for the not-so-popular resonance energy transfer methodology and I am more than happy to ride on their coat tails. In fact, my racking systems are essentially designed around their Audio Points because resonance energy transfer is an all or nothing methodology.
Other areas of importance with properly designing a performance-oriented racking system include:
o Adequate ventilation. o Minimize surface areas capturing air-borne vibrations. o Component sizes. o Shelf height adjustability. o Rigidity. o Shelf capacity. o Scalability. o Price. o Aesthetics.
I can't say that I've adequately addressed every one of these criteria, but I've done my best.
I will say this much. When one purchases any racking system in the 'performance-oriented' category, the level of sonic performance gains one should expect should be no less than the sonic gains of 1 or 2 major component upgrades.
Hope this helps, and thanks again for your compliment.
System edited: Added the APL 3910 universal cd player and a pair of NuForce Ref 9 Premium amps. This custom APL 3910 will be used in the NuForce room at CES next month.
Thanks, Ray. I really appreciate your compliments.
Of course the designs are for naught if they do not substantially improve the sonics by properly dealing with air-borne vibrations captured by the components and the rack.
Thanks for the kind words, John(Girod) and you too Beemer.
Considering Girod has one of one of the better sounding systems I've heard (he owns the very highly acclaimed Denon 2900 APL SACD/CD player and Wilson Watt/Puppy speakers), his comments mean a lot.
BTW, about 10 days ago I installed 8 Isoclean gold-plated electrical fuses in each of my line conditioners and then 5 more in my amplifier (2 on each rail and 1 external). The improvements were quite pleasing.
I initially presented those prototypes to illustrate some new design concepts I call Post & Beam-styled racking systems that in my experience extract some of the greatest sonic performance gains I am aware of.
After THE Show I was off on other endeavors. But I'm now considering moving forward with these same designs and possibly a few new ones.
I'm still amazed at the kind of performance gains that can be extracted via proper vibration control. I've been using one of my prototypes that was initially funded by someone in the industry. I've been so pleased with its performance that I am very reluctant to give it up, but I'll have to ship it out in a few weeks.
A while back I sold my Defiance rack (it was displayed on a turntable at THE Show) to someone in Hong Kong and several days ago, I put my two What Rack? all-metal prototypes up for sale on Agon.
Rumor has it that you and I spoke at THE Show. Is that true?
Ray, the best way to find out more about the Anti-cables is to go to the Agon home page then do a search on 'Anti-cable'. This should point you in the right direction. I had only heard of them thru another member who referred me to my latest amp and my previous speaker cables.
Thanks, Onhwy61. I appreciate your comment. These racks were a few prototypes I displayed at the THE Show illustrating what can be done with my patent pending status Post & Beam styled designs. Since these are not for sale at this time, I'm sure nobody would think I'm shilling by pointing you to some pictures of those prototypes here on Agon.
Thanks for the compliment, Slipknot1. Raytheprinter, the Paul Spetzer (sp) Anti-cable speaker cables are quite extraordinary for the price. $60 for a 6ft run but I have a bi-wired config with 2 sets.
I've only had them for a week, but there is very little burn-in time (about 2 hours) and immediately they matched or exceeded my previous cable in every category except perhaps aesthetics. But the end result of the improvements have led to a substantially greater level of transparecy in addition to the other more minor improvements.
Ryder, with you being a structural designer, I consider that high praise indeed. Thank you very much for your compliments.
I trust that you've seen the rack with no equipment on it, since when the rack is loaded (as above) there's not much to see? If you haven't, here's a few photos:
