Jeffrey

If you are using your pre/pro for music (I don't) then the Lexicon would not be my first choice but probably the new Halcro SS200 but I wouldn't be ordering the first off the assembly line. The Halcro is very musical. If you have time I would wait to see what Theta does as IMO Theta is THE most musical and with new owwnership I am certain exciting changes will be available late 2008

oneobgyn December 31, 2007 15:12

Thomasheisig

You have a very serious system yourself and I can see why you are interested in the ML3.

Having heard the ML3 and with my previous notion that the ML 2.1 was the best amp on the planet I can say to you in all candor that the ML 2.1 sounds one dimensional when compared to the ML 3.

The ML 3 IMO will be the amplifier by which all others will be judged. There is no doubt in my mind. I have never had a listening experience so realistic as I did with the ML3

Vladimir and Elina will be showing this amp at CES in the Venetian and I would encourage all audiophiles who are going to CES to stop by and have a listen. I am told that he will be playing them through the same speakers as mine (X-2 Alexandria). The experience I will guaranty to be nothing short of jaw dropping.

oneobgyn December 31, 2007 15:08

Very interesting to read. I enjoy it a lot.
I am very interested in your experience with the ML3.
Cheers!

thomasheisig December 31, 2007 10:11

Obgyn,

It doesn't have HDMI 1.3 yet, though the current units will be upgradeable when it becomes available. I'm waiting on them to add it myself to consider my next move. I've been looking at the Halcro as well. If I put good thought into the source units and use analog bypass for them to pass music through, I'm hoping that it won't matter as much which unit I get. That is the dilemma though... :(

jkalman December 31, 2007 06:46

Jeffrey

BTW of all of the pre/pros probably the Halcro is the most musical but the Lexicon is the only one (as best I know) that handles 1080p24 and also has HDMI 1.3

oneobgyn December 31, 2007 05:30

Hi Jeffrey

I believe that you asked and answered your question as to why I went with the MC12 HD

"The analog bypass modes on the MC-12 are a true boon for a surround sound audiophile, something that is sorely lacking on the 861 unfortunately. That and the 861 speaker tuning/leveling and bass management is so proprietary, you can't test it with any external test signal videos to examine if it is working correctly. Very annoying to say the least, though it sounds phenomenal, if you can stop stressing out about it. "

To be honest the Meridian 861 wasn't even on my short list. Downside to the Lexicon is that it isn't great when it comes to music but for me I will only be using it in my HT side of things

oneobgyn December 31, 2007 05:26

Obgyn,

Why did you decide on the Lexicon MC-12 HD over something like the Meridian 861?

Funny enough, I've been contemplating a switch from my 861 to the MC-12 HD, but I have been waiting for their HDMI 1.3 implementation and full HD audio support before I commit myself any further to the possibility. The analog bypass modes on the MC-12 are a true boon for a surround sound audiophile, something that is sorely lacking on the 861 unfortunately. That and the 861 speaker tuning/leveling and bass management is so proprietary, you can't test it with any external test signal videos to examine if it is working correctly. Very annoying to say the least, though it sounds phenomenal, if you can stop stressing out about it.

Another unit under consideration has been the TacT unit because of the amazing digital processing algorithms, but it doesn't seem to have analog bypass and only has three channel XLR out. Having an analog bypass means I could also sell my K-1xe and just use the new preprocessor exclusively for all my source equipment...

Then again, I might not change anything.... I'm definitely curious on your thoughts on the MC-12 vs. other units, as well as why you chose that one in particular (likely a lot of the same reasons I am considering switching...).

jkalman December 31, 2007 04:05

Gregadd

They (yes I bought two Gotham subs) shipped this week so I should have them in the next several days

My full install of the HT goes in Jan 21-25. I will do updated photos once everything is complete.

oneobgyn December 30, 2007 21:10

looking forward to pictures of your new sub.

gregadd December 30, 2007 17:57

As for the XS (or any sub for that matter) if the crossover is set properly one should not be able to "hear" where it is. If you can close your eyes and point to where the sub is when you listen then it is crossed over too high and some mid range is present in the sub (these frequencies allow you to discern position. The XS crosses over at 35 Hz so position IMO is not important--for me it was aesthetics as well as what was recommended by ASC. That sub is a monster, standing 84 inches tall and weighing 750 lbs. I had mine positioned inside the left front corner beside an Acoustic Science Super trap 20. As you know my room is heavily trapped with a total of 38 ASC tube traps of all sizes and ASC sound panels on the front wall. The design and placement of these tube traps and panels was provided by Acoustic Sciences Corporation in Oregon.

http:www.acousticsciences.com

I would recommend that you have some form of room modifications otherwise you will almost certainly develop room nodes with a single sub. ASC provides free CAD diagrams for anyone's room. All one needs to do is to provide photos of the room with dimensions, equipment placement and sitting position. They will then provide renderings to scale as to what they recommend for best sound results. Because I have 38 traps in my room I did the room in stages, treating the corners and the front wall first and then the sides of the room.

There really is no manual for the XS.

I used my XS for 2 channel listening, multichannel listening as well as home theater. I ran my speakers full range and then used the XS to bring up the bottom as recommended by Jeff Fritz. My X-2's go pretty low with their 15" woofers. I did however have the same speakers for all setups so I am not so sure how you would do what you want. For me it was very easy and involved no cable changes when listening to either HT or to stereo. Per instructions given to me by Trent at Wilson Audio I always had the trim switch set at 1 o'clock (this is the volume control switch and not the crossover). The crossover is fixed internally in the box at 35 Hz. I sold my XS and bought a pair of the new JL Audio Gotham subs which I heard in a friends system in Dallas. I had never heard any sub as good as this each with a 3800 watt amplifier and the ability to equalize your room with time delay and phase delay. Don't get me wrong though as the XS is everything that its name bestows. I am redoing the HT side of my room and due to screen size needed more room along the front wall and hence had to sell my XS. JM Audio also makes a very good sub called the Beryllium Utopia which also is active like the Gotham and not passive like the XS.
Happy listening.

oneobgyn December 30, 2007 15:10

Dear Doc,
Was hoping you could help me with the placement of the XS.(Im using it with X 1 s2 for 2 channel) Is it better to put it like you or better on the side of the room ? I bought it used so a manual did not come with it. Also, do you think I can use it for both s channel and ht? I have a different set of speakers for ht. Do you set the crossover for 1 oclock when using it for ht? Are the new subwoofers like JM audio better than the xs?
Sorry for all the questions
Thanks

newfer December 30, 2007 08:59

Actually many of of my audiophile friends have used the MF tube buffer with absolutely no sacrifice of bass slam. The input impedance is 470Kohm so as they say it is virtually invisible in the system. I do agree about a SS linestage but that "might" happen later only if necessary. As well the amps on the Gotham subs are 3800 watt so I am not worried.

Finally the ML 3 possesses great bass slam and should there ever be a way own a pair I would only use the Gothams in my home theater side. Also I will use my X-2's full range and only use the Gothams to bring up the bottom...this is what I did when I owned the XS

oneobgyn December 25, 2007 21:29

Hi Doc,

Having tried the MF buffer before, I think that you may sacrifice some of the bass slam your new subs are capable of. Do not get me wrong - X-10D is an interesting device, but it is merly a good hi-fi, not a hi-end, IMO.

What I would do, is to get a very good SS linestage with great bass (any krell will do) to serve as a SS buffer.

BTW - Pls let us know about your evaluation of the new Vladimir's amps.

elberoth2 December 25, 2007 20:25

"Congrats on the new gear, OB! Looks like Santa got you lots of toys this year...

Joey...I made some good deals in the sale of my Linn Unidisk 1.1, Krell HTS 7.1, Krell 750 MCX and the Wilson XS. As well there is something to be said for good customer loyalty. I have dealt with my dealer for many years and through multiple room changes such that I am able to get some good customer discount. I also purchased the Sim H2 C3X 1080 PJ before the price went up by $2000 due to the devalued US dollar in relation to the Euro. BTW, Sim has also just announced that there will be another price increase on this PJ on Jan 2nd so those who are interested should be ordering theirs now. Those interested in a deal can e-mail but need to do it ASAP due to the pending price increase.

oneobgyn December 22, 2007 14:54

Rugyboogie

To say that the Gothams in comparison to the XS are revolutionary and not merely evolutionary is an understatement. Hearing the pair in my friend's room was shocking. I have never been so involved in a two channel room as his (and I like to think that mine is pretty darn good). When I returned home to California I played all of the same music in my room that he had played for me and even though it was pretty darn good it lacked that very deep tight bass which I heard at his place. Knowing that I was redoing my home theater gave me pause to consider selling my Wilson XS and Krell 750 mcx and purchase a pair of the Gothams. I was initially going to use them in only the home theater but having heard my friend play them in 2 channel audio I was smitten and have figured out a very easy way to do it without crapping out my Ref 3 or without having to swap cables when going from home theater to two channel audio and vice versa. Finally to see the Gotham sub is to also appreciate the artmanship in the cabinetry. The polished black finish is virtually identical to the Wilson piano black paint....and then to drive those two drivers per sub with a 3800 watt amp is simply amazing. Then they come with a microphone to help you make room adjustments as well as time and phase control. Suffice it to say I no longer own the XS (which BTW was magnificent and served its purpose). It took three burly safe movers and a hydraulic lift to negotiate the XS down my circular staircase from the second to the first floor. It cost me more to do that one hour move than it did to transport the XS from the west to the east coast where it now resides. Ordinary movers or piano movers would not even attempt it so I got a safe moving company to do it.

oneobgyn December 22, 2007 14:44

Hi Oneobgyn
Hope that you are doing well. From your last tread on your system update you are making big changes. To change out the Wilson XS for the Gothams says lots about the Gothams. I am thinking of adding a second sub to my Watch Dog. Let me know how you make out with the Gotham.
I have my Maxx II set up in my room and I am thrilled with how they sound.
Unfortunately I am still on the fence re the Lamm 2.1. I guess I will have to pay you a visit next year.
Merry X-mas,
Mike

rugyboogie December 22, 2007 12:53

Congrats on the new gear, OB! Looks like Santa got you lots of toys this year...

Joey

joey_v December 22, 2007 10:23

System Edited

Well several years ao when I posted photos and description of my room, it had been my desire to redo the much antiquated video side of my room. I however became distracted and redid the audio side in its entirety. For me audio has always been my true love. Finally however I have taken the plunge and my video components have all been sold in the expectation of my much awaited and on order new gear. My Runco IDTV 800 CRT is gone along with its line doubler for the much lauded Sim H2 C3x 1080. Also gone is my drop down 4 X 3 screen in favor of a wall mount Stewart Firehawk CineV 130 inch 2.35 screen which will mask to 16 X 9 as well. As a result I have also on order an Isco 3 anamorphic lens with a Cineslide for 2.35 viewing. I have sold my Linn Unidisk 1.1 as well as my Krell HTS 7.1 and have purchased the new Sony Blu-Ray Player BDP-S2000ES along with the balanced version of the Lexicon MC-12 HD. I went with the latter as it seems that it is presently the only processor on the market that does 1080p 24 which the new projector does as well. I have also sold my behemoth Wilson XS sub and crossover along with the Krell 750 MCX monoamp which I used to drive this sub. I never thought that I would sell this sub but recently I had occasion to visit the home of an audiophile friend of mine in Dallas who had a pair of the much recently reviewed JL Audio Gotham subs. Simply put I had never heard such bass response as I did with these Gothams. So much so that I sold my XS and Krell to make room for the pair of Gothams that I also purchased. Each of these subs have their own 3800 watt amplifier. It is my intent to use the stereo subs not only in my home theater but also to supplement the bass in my audio side of things. Using a tube preamp and tube amps (Lamm ML 2.1 SET's at 18 wpc)I did sacrifice much bass slam that I had previously with my prior solid state amps and then my Audio Research Reference 600 Mk lll's. The Lamm amps however IMHO are the best amps I have ever owned. Bringing the Gotham subs back into the picture will get me back to where I want to be. I will be running both loads in parallel off my Ref 3. This however will put a great strain on the Ref 3 brcause the input impedance on my Lamm amps is 41 KOhms and the input impedance for the Gotham subs is only 10 KOhms. This will result in loss of dynamics and top end if I did nothing. The solution to the problem is the addition of a Tube Buffer X-10v3 and its separate power supply X-PSUv3 made by Musical Fidelity. The tube buffer has an input impedance of 470KOhms and will be used between the Audio Research Ref 3 and the Gotham subs. This addition will negate any loss of dynamics and high end from the Ref3 into the Lamm ML 2.1's. I also sold my Tara Labs cable previously used between the Krell 750 MCX and the Wilson XS. In its place will be Transparent Audio Reference single ended cable (can't use XLR because there are only single ended inputs into the Tube Buffer) between the Ref 3 he Tube Buffer and the Gotham subs. Much of the equipment has been delivered and installation will take place by mid January. Updated photos will follow very soon. My only reservation was to go with not only a wall mount screen but also a curved wall mount screen. I have been worried that this could interfere with proper two channel listening. I have been reassured however that this should not be the case. If however this is evident I will be installing motorized retractable curtains for the front of the screen when not in use. Stay tuned

oneobgyn December 21, 2007 23:27

you won't regret it Brian. Give Jim a call and I am sure he will send you a loaner for trial in your room

oneobgyn December 13, 2007 23:27

I stopped plugging the amps in to line conditioners long before you heard the system. I quite by accident decided to try the front end without a line conditioner. In my previous setup, using the Theta casablanca as the linestage, adding the running springs was like a transformation to the system. In the current configuration, I wasn't even sure my power cords were long enough to reach the plugs without the added the help of the conditioner. I haven't logged extended hours without the conditioner in place, but so far there are some positives that may end up outweighing the negatives. I will give the Sound Application folks a call.

bflowers December 13, 2007 21:52

Hi Brian

First off I hope you took my advice and stopped plugging your amps into your line conditioner but rather directly into a dedicated AC wall plug.

As for line conditioners I have used many over the years. Prior to my present Line Conditioner from Jim Weil at Soundapplication I was using Tara Labs AD/10B and found it to be only so-so. Jim Weil's products came highly recommended and reviewed. He is local here in the SF Bay Area. I caled him and he came out to my house with several of his units to demo and to a/b one against the other.Suffice it to say the comparison waqs more than subtle. We played The Eagles Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over Album. With my Tara Labs AD/10B you could barely hear the shakers in the background. With Jim's Line Conditioner not only could you hear them but they made a significant impression in the sound stage. I was amazed. I bought his TOL unit. Recently Jim called me to tell me that he has since modified and improved that unit and told me he was sending me his new unit at no charge other than to send the old one back. Service such as this in this industry is a rarity these days. Jim is typically at CES and I would recommend that you stop into his room. I would bet he will give you a no obligation loaner to try. If so I would say to jump at the chance as you will thank me. He does the build of the units while his wife does the design. She is an electrical engineer having been the first female EE to graduate from the Naval School in Annapolis

oneobgyn December 13, 2007 20:22

Greetings to you in the bay! I wanted to ask your thoughts on the sound applications conditioner you have in place. I assume you have it on the front end. I recently experimented with plugging my preamp and transport (tara power cords) directly into my dedicated lines without the running springs conditioner. I found one of my criticisms of my system to be improved;namely soundstage depth improved and instruments and voices have more distinct borders to them. The background, however, is not as "black" and perhaps the bass is not quite as good (not certain of this one yet) as with the conditioner in place. Thus, I was interested in your impressions of your conditioner.

bflowers December 13, 2007 19:13

Ljr33

In all honesty I would go on record by saying that cable elevators in all probability make absolutely no difference in the sound heard. For me they have merely become a way by which I can neatly get my cables off the floor. For anyone to tell you otherwise would make you a strong candidate for a bridge that I have listed for sale

oneobgyn December 06, 2007 23:16

How does the tweak of the cable elevators that you got from audionut actually help the performance of your system. I am interested in how this could possibly help to improve my own system. I hope to hear back from you soon. Thanks.

ljr33 December 06, 2007 22:09

I traded e-mails with Marc over the past several days. He felt the upgrade was dramatic and would work even better with my amps

oneobgyn November 24, 2007 21:03