I just finished building a dedicated listening room in my new apartment. It took me one year and a half to complete, but it was well worth the wait. I simply love it.
The room size is 14 x 19 x 8 feet.
The room was designed by a company that specialises in acoustic design. Not the popular Rives Audio, since I live in Europe and that would increase the costs of the Level 3 project well past $10k mark, but a reputable local company.
The room acoustics was was first designed in a digital domain and then improved upon with the real world measurements taken during all stages of construction work.
The room is soundproof and - among other things - features soundproof windows, double doors and 11" thick double walls. The measured noise level inside the room is 26dB during the day (measured during rush hours, at 16:00), so it is almost dead quiet.
The room has two dedicated lines, each rated 20A @ 230V, one for analog and one for digital gear. All cables, circuit breakers and mains outlets are of audiophile quality.
MSB DAC IV Signature with Diamond Power Base - replaced the dCS Scarlatti, which served me as my reference for the past 3 yaers.
MSB S200
Fully balanced 200 Watt stereo amplifier. Class A, Zero Negative Feedback design. Fluid, palpable, a bit on the warm side of things. An amazing piece.
Magico S5
New addition to the system. Replaced Wilson Sasha speakers.
MUSA S21T USB
Computer based transport with SOtM PCIe USB card, SOtM sata filter, fanless PSU, fanless i5 CPU, SSD, 8GB RAM and Synology 2x2TB NAS. Running Win 7/64 with Jriver and Jplay.
AudioQuest WEL Signature
Replaced Tara Labs The RS-1 interconnects.
AudioQuest Diamond USB
USB cable.
Shunyata Anaconda Z-Tron
A new model from Shunyata. Replaced van den Tara Labs RS-1 cable.
Shunyata Anaconda CX
I have two of those, powering Dart and dCS.
Pure Power 2000
Battery powered AC Regenerator.
Finite Elemente Pagode Master Reference HD09
Top of the range component stand from Finite Elemente, with their resonator technology (3 used). I favour those over a 4-tier Pagode rack, since they do not interfere with soundstage when placed between the speakers.
Finite Elemente Ceraballs
I have two sets placed under my speaker cables. Very unussual location, I agree, but works a treat.
Finite Elemente Cerapuc
I have two sets placed under my speakers. A simply stunning improvement in low-level detail retrival and microdynamics. Worth every penny !
HMS Energia SSDB mains outlets
Two of those finish off my two, 230V/20A, dedicated power lines.
AHP Klangmodul 3+
Audiophile circuit breakers. Gold plated, solid copper contacts. Each of the two dedicated power lines has his own breaker.
ACS Diffusors
Diffusors made by german company Acoustic Control Systems. I have 3 sets of those, one on the rear wall and two on the side walls. As you can see on the pic, the whole part of the rear wall, to which the diffusor is attached, pertrudes 12" into the room.
Custom absorbers
The whole room is fitted with custom absorbers, tuned to specific frequencies. The pic shows one of the six absorbers fitted to the front wall. If you look carefully, you wil notice, that there is an MDF plate with lots of small holes fitted inside, which divides the internal volume of the absorber into two smaller chambers. The sound enters the traps by the front gaps, goes to the first empty chamber and then through the holes to the next chamber, where it can dissipate in a mineral fiber (not fitted on this pic).
Custom diffusors
Set of 5 custom diffusors fitted over the listener's head.
RT-60 curve
This is the RT-60 curve of my room. Black trace is our target curve, blue one is base curve (empty room, no acoustic treatment, no floor), red curve shows how the room responded after ACS diffusors, wooden floor and sand stone were added. Green curve is the most recent one. It is still not perfect, but we are working on it.
Room Frequency Response curve
Room Frequency response. Quite nice if you ask me :-)
Daikin ultra quiet A/C unit
Daikin A/C split system replaced McQuay unit. The difference in noise levels generated by those two units is staggering. Daikin is so quiet (22dB) that you can barely hear it from the listening chair. There are CD-players that generate more noise than this ! The other outstanding feature of this unit is that it can work when outside temp drops to 10'F - so it can be used during winter too.
My system is at the state of constant change, LOL. 6 months ago I got myself the MSB S200 and I'm already buying the MSB monos :) Thinking about upgrading to the Diamond DAC too (I already have the Diamond Power Base).
Rhyno - I think that the S5 is a better speaker. MUCH smoother, more refied, less in your face. More natural timbre - especially on female vocals. The bass from the sealed box is also much better - goes lower, is faster and much more detailed. Wilsons almost sound boomy in comparison.
Now I can see what people like in sealed box designs.
The only area where Sasha outperforms Magico is the soundstage depth. My guess is that it is becouse of the wider front of the speaker. Sasha's head is almost like a minimonitor, which helps it to disappear better.
System edited: BIG system changes ! I haven't updated my system thread in a year or so, and during that time I have replaced almost an entire system. Sashas were replaced with Magicos S5, darTZeel with the MSB S200 and dCS Scarlatti had to make place for the new MSB DAC IV Signature Plus with the Diamond Power Base. New system images to follow.
Perrew - My main reference point is dCS Scarlatti, but I also had many other (cheaper) DACs and CDPs at home.
Metrum Octave, was one of the very, very few DACs that made me want to listen to more music instead of reverting back to dCS, after listening to a couple of songs.
As for the USB converters, AP1 was great, so was the EA ORT 5, but overall slightly I prefered the full M2Tech Evo stack (converter + battery PSU + clock).
Sutts - yes I did. I had Accuphase DP-700 about 4-5 years ago for about two weeks. I was looking for a new CDP back then to replace my MBL 1531 and was checking my options. I had finally settled on ARC CD-7, which I felt was a better CDP.
A friend of mine, who had an all Accuphase system with the DP-700, came to similar conclusion after hearing the CD-7mkII, and bought himself a CD-8.
FTKS25 - only 22dB in quiet mode. I think this is as low as you can get, but ask around. Most manufacturers give dB figures - just like projector manufactures.
It is a great speaker, especially for the money, but also very demanding.
For one, it has very low sensivity. It was advertised as 87dB, but I had measured a (record setting) 78dB ! You need literally loads of power to make it sing. Fortunately, I have had Cary CAD-500MB at the time, rated 500W/1000W (8/4 Ohms), so for me power was not an issue.
The other thing is that they are uber sensitive to placement. I have spent several evenings before I found the right combination of distances to back/side walls and toe in. They are also extremely directional - move 10 inches to the side, and the highs and all the magic is gone. Sweet spot is extremely limited.
The panels are rather small, so naturally, they will not drive big rooms with full range sound at high SPLs. My room is 14 x 19, and IMO that is more or less the upper limit for them, without having to worry about the volume levels and choice of musical material.
But once setup, with the proper amplification, thay can sound magical. Super fast, very low in coloration, above avg resolution (better than Quads 2905), good texture and exceptional 'you are there' sensation,, with voices floating freely in the room. Amazing.
Douglas_schroeder - I actually tried several panel speakers. For almost 8 months I have had Audiostatic DMC-5 full range electrostatic speakers on loan, I have also tried Quad 2905 and Magnepan 3.6 in my room.
Although they were special in some ways, ultimately I feel that the Wilson Sasha is a better overall 'package'.
Jfrech - congrats on your new front end ! I'm jealous !
I'm still using the Halide USB/SPDIF converter, although I in a process of looking for a superior one. U-Clock is one of the options so is the upcoming Scarlatti clock/Upsampler with 24/192/DSD capability, but I would also like to try the BADA Alpha USB and the new Off-Ramp Turbo 5.
Thalis - than you for your most excellent post. My experiences seem to mirror yours. I also had Lamm 1.2R in my system, and I think that both Dart and 911 are just better.
For any other speaker than the Sasha, I would choose the Dart at a heartbeat. For the Sasha, you may need a more powerful amp - depending on the size of your room and music taste.
Daisiu - I have learned that Cerabases/Ceraballs/Cerapucs are very system dependent. It may work in one system, but not another. They seem to work different depending on what floor you have, what rack you are using etc. There is no other way to tell than to try them yourself.
Haven't tried the Cerabases undem my Wilsons, but a friend of mine tried them under his speakers, and prefered the standard spikes.
Hessec - I just read you post in my thread (I was not able to access my recent activity page for weeks due to that audiogon system change ...).
Anyway, the RS-1 is like 0.8 on steroids. It is similar in tonality, meaning that it is sounding very full and natural, with excellent texture, maybe even a bit to the warm side of neutral. Yet, at the same time, RS-1 has greater resolution and openess on top, and gives you more of that 'you are there feeling'.
If you already have the 0.8 and like it, the RS-1 is a no brainer.
Honestly _ I do not remember how Nagra PMA monos sounded. At the time I had Nagra VPA amps at home, I borrowed the PMAs to check how do they compare to the VPAs, but after first minutes of listening, I concluded that the (more expensive) tube VPA monos are better, and after a day or two I returned them to the dealer.
Lapierre - not really. As much as I love ARC gear, when I last have heard the Ref 110 vs 210, I though that 210 was more of a sideways move than a clear upgrade to 110. Ref 210 had more bass slam and macro dynamics, but at the same time they, lost some fineese to their cheaper brother IMO.
Ref 150 is just a refinement of the Ref 110 design - more capacitance in the power supply, KT120 tubes and new coupling capacitors. Unless I missed something, same upgrades have been applied to Ref 250, so I doubt they will sound much different than Ref 150.
Make no mistake - at $12k Ref 150 is a great little amp, with excellent texture, PRAT and 'jump factor', but is simply not as transparent as the Dart. The Dart just shows you much more of everything ... as it should at $30k.
Agear - that 'rick facade behind the speakers' you are reffering to is a sand stone, glued to the wall, about 1 inch thick. It is used here for its natural diffusive properties.
Those wood inserts are custom made absorbers, tuned to a specific freq.
Wiebe - the JA80 I have had on loan, was the 25th Anniversary Edition, aka JA80 Gold. These amps were equipped with 6550 tubes, but I had a chance to try KT120 tubes as well (although briefly).
As you noted, the KT120 tubes seem to keep all the virtues of regular 6550 equipped JA80 Gold (namely fluidity and natural ease to the tone) but adds greater degree of transparency and bass control.
The JA120 monos I had, came with KT120 tubes. I belive those tubes are standard with JA120. This amp sounds a bit different to JA80 - it is more transparent, still o the warm side but not OVERLY warm like JA80 Gold, has better both micro and macro dynamics, and in general is more accurate.
I found JA120 to be a clear improvement over JA80. However, a friend of mine, JA80 Gold owner (with KT120 tubes upgrade) was not so sure ... he missed some JA80 warmth and tube magic and decided to keep his JA80 Gold.
Jfrech - Scarlatti is much better. The first time I heard Scarlatti DAC in my system, and that was 6 months ago, I still had my Puccini. I used Puccini as a transport (clock linked to the Scarlatti DAC) and the difference was night and day. This is the kind of difference you can hear in the first 5 or 10s on a familiar recording.
Scarlatti has better resolution and clarity, it lets you hear much deeper into the recording and appreciate all those tiny spatial clues. The way the sounds decay into space is simply breathtaking.
As the same time, Scarlatti sounds more natural than Puccini, less forced, the sound is much more sophisticated and pure, which I directly attribute to much lower grain in HF.
Interestingly, I would never thought of describing Puccini as 'grainy' ! Quite the oposite in fact. In my experience, Puccini exhibits the lowest amounts of HF grain of all CDPs I have tried. And yet, Scarlatti improves on that, which I find extraordinary.
Compared to Scarlatti, Puccini sounds brighter, harder and more 2-dimensional.
If you listen to Scarlatti, make sure it has the latest software loaded (v1.2). The latest software adds the asymetric (apodising) digital filters and makes the DAC accept 24/192 files on all digital inputs.
I still have to experience the Scarlatti transport in my system. Right now, I'm running my DAC from my laptop via Halide Designs The Bridge USB->SPDIF converter. Next week I should have my hi-end music server ready. I do not expect it to beat the dedicated Scarlatti transport, but since my server was only $4500, and Scarlatti transport is $32k, I cannot complain.
In any case, Scarlatti DAC + server > Puccini, which is what counts for me the most.
I use RCA cables, since they sound best with Dart.
But yes, I prefer dCS direct to power amp over any amp I have had a chance to try in my system (and I have tried quite a few, including $110.000 Kondo M-1000, $25k Jadis JP-80 Gold, ARC Ref-3, Spectral DMC-30SS).
Honestly, I do not belive ANY premap could improve upon dCS digital attenuation, unless you like a certain coloration that a certain pre can intoruce, and/or your avg attentuation window is much more than dCS recommended 0dB to -10dB (in my system it is -5dB to -15dB and it is still OK).
Richard - I have extensively auditioned several amps in my system in the past few months, including Jadis JA-80 Gold and JA-120 monos, Spectral DMA-260 and Burmester 911 mk 3, but none of them bested my Dart overall.
Spectral 260 was probably the closest match, in fact it sounded more transparent and revealing on recommended MIT cables than the Dart (Oracle MA-X IC and Magnum MA spk), but once I switched back to my prefered set of wires (Tara Labs RS-1 IC and vdH The Revelation) I prefered my current setup to Spectral/MIT combination.
I the meantime, I have sold my Puccini and bought dCS Scarlatti, so it is probably a high time to update my system page.
Then you probably had excessive DC at the output. It has to be rechecked once a few months, if you want to run the amp with the DC compensation switched off (sounds better this way).
A friend of mine had this problem once, but once the DC output was adjusted, the problem was solved. Dart is a very puristic design - 99,99% of manufacturers do not give the user the possiblility to switch the DC compensation off, chence avoiding any future problems it may cause.
Yes, I did try the vdH The First Ultimate mk2 and vdH The Second, but they were no match for the Tara The 0.8. However, for the money, they represent a truly outstading value. IMO The First Ultimate sounds better than many cables costing 5-6 times as much.
I'm running the dCS direct to Dartzeel. I tried the Ref3 for a while, but Puccini direct was better, so sold the Ref3 and haven't looked back.
Just added a Pure Power 2000 battery powered AC Regenerator. It has bought the single biggest improvement to my system in the past 4-5 years.
Pure Power made me belive in power conditioning. Before trying the PP2000, I have tried several such a units in the past, including Shunyata Hydra 6/8, PS Audio Powerplant, Accuphase P-1210 and other, but never found them worthwile. While they improved some areas of the system performance, they compromissed others. I strongly belived that dedicated lines + audiophile grade circuit breakers + audiophile grade AC outlets that I invested in, were the way to go.
Until now. Pure Power brought a dramatic change to my system, with no downside. It makes my system sound smoother and more dynamic at the same time. The sound is more resolved and has a much better texture.
I cannot stress enough how enthusiastic I'am about this unit. My system never sounded better.
The only complain is that to fully exploit its potential, you need to listen from the battery power, not from the wall AC, which limits the available running time. Right now, batteries allow for 2h uninterrupted playback. I'm expecting to legnten that period to 8 hours, after adding the Pure Power Battery Pack, which I have already ordered.
Ricred1 - my answer to your question is long overdue, but I somehow missed your post. From what I can see from your system thread, you already upgraded to Sophia III ! I bet it is an excellent speaker, since the Sasha, which in many ways is identical to S3, is so much better than the Sophia 2. Better HF performance, less grain, more texture.
Rilou - no I did not have a chance - Vilola lacks a local distribution in my area.
Just once, during Munich Show last year - complete Solution rig with Maxx 3. Sounded very good indeed. I would love to hear solution gear in my system, but unfortunately, there is no distributor in my area. I plan to listen to Solution gear once more, during this year show next month.
As for the Dart - I sold it. I use balanced ICs throughout, and Model One 'A' I had was having ground loop problems when fed with XLR cables. On RCAs it was fine. I was told, that Model One 'B' is recommended to avoid ground loop problems, since it is equipped with input transformer on XLRs - and indeed, when I borrowed friend's Model One B,it was dead quiet. Since I bought it used - I sold it with no loss. I'm planning to borrow it once again (the Model 'B') to see how it works with Sashas in the near future. I may even consider getting another one, but obviously, this time the Model 'B'.
My impression of Audioquest Sky 72's and Valhalla XLR's mimic your observations...have you every auditioned KS 1130's?
C1ferrari - unfortunately, I did not have a chance.
The folks at Wilson do make a wonderful product...I love your selected color, Desert Silver?
Unoear - This is correct - Desert Silver.
I can't help but notice that your Sashas are on rollers. This is a feature that I thought was only available with Maxx and Alexandria set up. Did the rollers come as part of the Sasha set up kit?
Gpgr4blu - yes, the rollers come with the Sasha. I only wish they throw in the famous Wilson aluminium jack too !
funny how our findings differ. I too have the VPA's and have recently sold the Dartzeel NHB-108 for a pair of brand new Ayre MX-R's, which bettered the Dart in every respect in my system. So I could either keep the VPA's or the Dart, and I chose the VPA's.
Pinkus - it is all prolly system and room dependent. Individual taste plays a role too.
There is review in Stereophile which describes the chracter of the VPA rater well.
In short, this is a very neutral sounding amp, so if you are looking for warm, inviting sound with deeply saturated tonal colors - looks elswere.
The amp offers excellent soundstaging, resolution and microdynamics. Bass is outstanding for a SET design, but SS amps can still do better.
I think that it betters the Pass XA-30.5 I also have, especially with regard to image outlines and sound palpability (this is a typical tube amp trait for me, which is VERY hard to duplicate for SS design). Dartzeel hovewer, is quite a bit better, since it does all VPAs can do, and then some.
Ferrari Red would definately fit my decor ... however knowing problems ppl have selling Wilsons in Red finish, I decided agains it and got the more popular Desert Silver.
I got my Sashas last week but still haven't got a chance to listen to them, not even for a single minute, since I sold my speaker cables 2 weeks ago and now I'm waiting for a new set, LOL.
Sorry for the late reply. I have had the Lamms BEFORE I got both ARC and Wilson speakers, so my comparisions would not be meaningful. At the time, I prefered some SET amps I had at hand. If I were to go Lamm again, I would try their tube offerings - the ML2.1 or ML3 amps.
PS. The Wilson Sasha had arrived. I will post pics soon.
Nolitan - I already had the Lamms M1.2R ... sold them rather quickly.
Madfloyd - I have them well into the room - 2-3 feet from the back of the speaker to the wall. No problems in my room. This is a trully great all around speaker.
Bstefano - I ended up with Dartzeel. I just sent the poweramp to Dartzeel for upgrade - they are gonna instal their very last - not even officially announced - darTZeel SCNP network (designed for all NHB-108 versions). This device is implemented in the local negative feedback, and provides much greater DC output stability versus temperature, without harming the sound, at the contrary improving the all global performance (deeper, tighter bass, and even smoother medium and highs). The price for the SCNP is CHF 1,575.00, plus labor CHF 300.00.
Plus, they are gonna remove AC socket and speakers crimp connectors, and directly silver soldering wires to the corresponding leads. The cost for this operation is CHF 250.00 (mainly labor costs).
I think it is one of the sacrifices you have to make, unfortunately. I wish Sophias offered a bi-wiring option - you could put Ongaku on top, which would give you a glorous midrange and HF, and some potent solid state amp to feed LF.
Having said that, Ongaku's bass is not THAT bad at all. If you are not a bass freak, and you do not listen a lot to the material with lots of LF content (like rock music), you will be perfectly fine.
And the first time you hear the glorius midrange, the uncanny you-are-there sensation only Ongaku can give, you will quickly forget its limitations.
Thanks for the info. The amp he is selling is a 100V unit ... needs a step down transformer. Plus, it also a bit different from all the Ongaku integrateds I have seen - it lacks the source selector and volume knob.
I'm using DCS. Sounds better with the Ongaku, thanks to the very low output impedance. Ongaku is basicly a poweramp with an added passive volume control, which isn't the easiest load to drive for tube based sources. Same happens with Audio Note DACs - if you want to use one with Ongaku, you need a preamp or otherwise bass and dynamics will suffer.
I have been listening to the Ongaku for the past couple of days. Quite simply - this is the best amp I have heard with the Sophias. Better than ARC Ref 3/ref 110, better than Pass X-350.5, and better than $50k Dartzel pre/power combo. Too bad it costs $110k in retail ... need to find one used.
Gpgr4blu - my conclusion is no different than initial thoughts posted on 03-25-09 in reply to Arthursmuck question.
Right now I have Audio Note Japan (Kondo) Ongaku amp in my system, but still haven't decided which CDP is better.
Two very different sounding players - using Teejay's "flavor" grading (see reference DACs thread for full explanation), dCS is a Flavor 1 and ARC CD-8 is Flavor 2.
ARC CD-8 and dCS Puccini offer very different perspective. Puccini is more transparent of the two, is more forward and has loads of details.
CD-8 is much warmer sounding, with lots of texture and much better rendering of soundstage depth.
When I first heard the Puccini, I was ready to proclaim that it is much better than CD-8. But after some 4+ weeks, I'm not sure anymore, I find myself listening to the CD-8 more and more, 'cos it seems to be more musical.
I still didn't have the time to borrow the new Mac MCD-500, so cannot comment on that.
Grr6001, I have the Dart pre and Dart pwr on dealers loan right now. I will offer my thoughts when I'm done with it.
I would love to get the DarT pre as well, but unfortunately, it is out of my budget. At least for now. I may get the DarT pwr amp and run it with the Puccini direct, and add pre at the later date.
Yes, this is true, I have only 3 components stands and no intention to get a rack. This is why I'm seriusly evaluating the preamp built into Puccini. It is really rather good. My Ref 3 sounds different, but necesarly better. One of my close friends runs Puccini direct to DarTZeel (used to run EMM CDSD/DCC2 SE combo) ... this is one of the combinations I would like to exlore in detail.
It is time for an upgrade. As good as the Ref 110 is (and quite simply, it is the best <$10k amp I have heard by far), there are still better amps out there.
I have 3 amps on my short list right now: DarTZeel 108 ($23.000), Lamm ML2.1 ($30.000) and Wavac MD805 ($20.000).
I would love to try the ARC Ref 210, which would be a natural successor to Ref 110, but 18 6550 output tubes would heat my small room way too much.
Yes, I'm gonna try the NOS 6550 TungSol Black Plate in the CD-8 - I have one spare left.
I'm also gonna try the NOS 6H30-DR tubes, but do not expect much. I've already tried them in both CD-7 and Ref110, and the improvement was pretty subtle, certainly not worth $500 extra.
System edited: I have sold my ARC Ref CD-7 CD player. I was listening to the player for the last time, before puting it back into the box on its way to the new owner in France, and still couldn't stop wondering, how good it sounds. Fabulous stuff. I think this is the best compliment you can make to a component on the day of sale.
Right now I have a dCS Puccini CDP on loan, together with the dedicated dCS U-Clock. It sounds really good - so far it is the best single box CDP I have heard.
Next week I should have the new ARC Ref CD-8, so we will see how it compares to the dCS. Before the CD-8 runs in, I will also try the new McIntosh MCD-500, equipped with the new ESS Sabre8 Reference DAC chipset.
So pls stay tuned.
Gerrym5 - thank you for your compliments. I have been also following your thread with great interest.
Yes, I tried them, but there is olny slight improvement.
On the other hand, the 6550 tube from the power supply, is well worth playing with. When I replaced it with NOS TungSol Black Plate from the 50s, I could not belive, how much better the preamp actually sounded !
The only downside is that those tubes are VERY expensive - last time I checked, tube store charged $500 for a single tube !
On the positive side, you only need one tube, and the improvement is still well worth the money.
You can try sourcing them from Andy from Vintage Tube Services - I bought mine for $180 from him. Cool guy.
Yes this is true if you do not mind the hassle of constant cable changes. In my system, inserting ARC Ref 3 (with NOS 6H30-DR and NOS 6550 Tung Sol Black Plate tubes on board) is more of a side step than a net improvement. Stock Ref 3 would prolly sound worse than Puccini direct.
Did you have a chance to compare the full stack (Verdi la Scala, Verona and Elgar Plus) to Puccini in your system ?
I'm curious, since your opinion is in contrast to my friends opinion, who is the owner of said dCS trio and evaluated dCS Puccini over a period of two weeks.
Microstrip - I do not think so. A friend of mine whose judgement I trust, compared Puccini to his dCS full stack (who has a dCS full stack (Verdi la Scala, Verona and Elgar Plus) and found the old stack to be superior.
Drw50 - the floors are 12" (or so) concrete, so they absorb a lot of sound. On top of that, I have soundproofed both the floor and the ceiling. So far (2+ years) I have never/ever had any complains.
Audphile1 - yes, I did, but had no time to evaluate it.
Mtkhl567 - ARC CD-7 is Falvor 2 against dCS which is Flavor 1 (I hope that you are familiar with "flavors" - if not see "Reference DACs" thread), so it is a bit hard to compare, but still I think that dCS is a better player. Much more resolution and imediacy. All for $10k extra over CD-7. I will try to compare it with CDSA.
Dartzeel is also better than Ref 110 I have to say. It is more transparent, has slightly better microdynamics, is more 3D sounding and has better resolution. I'm not sure that it is worth the extra $12k or so, but it is def a step above.
CD-7 is a trully great player once broken in. If you want to improve it even further, get yourself a quartet of NOS 6H30DR tubes and dress them with Herbie's Ultrasonic tube dampers.
The back corners of my room are treated with custom absorbers (made of MDF with holes).
System edited: Added the new, all-silver WEL Signature power cord to power my CDP. For whatever reason, Shynyata Anaconda Helix Alpha sounded too bright on CD-7 - WEL Signature is much better balanced.
@ Lapierre - I have no other speakers but Sophias 2. I used to have Avalon Eidolon Vision, which I also rate very highly.
@ Mart - I have been using AQ Silver cables for years, and although tried many different cable combinations, I always returned to AQ Everest/AQ Sky combo.
However, I have recently tried Kubala-Sosna Emotion speaker cable and it is a true revelation in my system. It is not as transparent as Everest, but texture is simply to die for.
I will try to borrow the TA MM2 cables you rate so highly, when my dealer finally gets them.
@ Branimir - I agree that the Sophia 2 is the best value for money speaker from Wilson Audio. I could prolly stretch my budget and get System 8, but I think Sophia 2 is more coherent.
@ Pimpinela - I hired a company to do all the design & construction work on my room and know very little about ACS itself.
Players I have auditioned before getting the CD-7 were as follows:
Accuphase DP-500 Accuphase DP-78 Accuphase DP-700 EMM Labs CDSD se/DCC2 se Krell evo 525
I did not have a chance to audition neither Wadia 581 (dealer sold his demo and did not get the next one on time) nor Esoteric and Ayre stuff (both are highly rated on this boards and both lack the distribution where I live).
Before getting the CD-7, I was using the MBL 1531, and before that - Audio Aero Capitole mk II SE.
I have tried TA Reference w/MM in the past (both balanced ICs and SCs) and wasn't overly impressed. There were things that those cables did well, but ultimately, I felt that they give up too much in the HF-air/resolution department.
I have found a very synergistic match with the Sophias with the Kubala Sosna Emotion cables, that my dealer brought with the speakers together. When I get my pair of Sophias, I will investigate them more closely.
System edited: I have just ordered Wilson Audio Sophia II speakers in Mercedes Silver finish. The synergy between ARC gear and Wilson Audio speakers is undisputed. I have never been a big Wilson Audio fan, but their latest offerings - System 8, X-2 and Sophia 2 - are not only listenable, but sound really great. This is a huge step up from the older Wilson designs like Watt 5.1, 6.0 or even System 7. And that comes from big Avalon fan and ex-owner no less !
I will post my impressions in Reference DACs thread - it will be a longer writeup, which just takes time to write.
In short, MBL have had a certain forwardnes in the upper midrange/lower treble, which I did not notice at first listening, but which made me sell the player eventually.
CD-7 sounds more natural, has much better resolution (I'm talking about HF-air, delicacy and extension here) and better portrayal of space - esp. soundstage depth.
System edited: ARC Reference CD-7 replaced MBL1531 CDP in my system. It was a long process, during past 2 months I auditioned over a dozen different players in the 8k-32k range, but in the end it was a journey worth taking. One piece of advice though - NEVER/EVER listen to ARC before 400h ! Early in the break in process, the player sounds muddy, diffused and grainy. I almost gave up on him waiting for him to take off. But when it finally did - Holly Jesus ! Broken in it sounds very open, fast, and accurate. The soundstage depth and rendition of space is just amazing ! Listening to the attack and decay of piano notes is simply a jaw dropping expirience. I have never heard a piano sounding more real.
I haven't bought the Accuphase DP-78 yet. It is my favourite right now, but I still have several CDPs left on my "must audition list". Among them, the latest and more expensive Accuphase DP-700, which I have already "secured" for auditioning in two weeks time (my dealer just got his first unit shipped, and there is literally the line od ppl waiting to listen to this player).
Today, I just brought home the Krell Evo 505 SACD player, which Branimir rated so highly in another thread. Next week I should finally get the ARC Ref 7 for audition as well, which many ppl recomended to me as a natural partner for my Ref 3/Ref 110 combination.
Sounds like I will have to check the CDSA as well !
Mtkhl567 - this is because CDSA is not a "true" SACD player. You may not know, but the mediatec solution used in the CDSA doesn't have the DSD output. ALL signals, be it RBCD or SACD are output from the mediatec chipset as 88.2kHz PCM and then upsampled to 2xDSD (5.6MHz).
PRAT - Pace, Rythm And Timing.
Mert - yeah, you can call it quite a discovery. I have heard the other (older) Accuphase players before, but none of them impressed me as much as the DP-78. But I'm not stopping there - next week I should have the DP-700 on demo. I can borrow the DP-800/801 as well (a friend living nearby owns one) but I'm not sure If I want to spend that much money on a CDP right now.
I guess there is no single best. It all goes down to the personal taste. You have chosen EMM CDSA over Accuphase. Stan (Talon4) sold his CDSA and bought Wadia. A close friend of mine get rid of his Wadia, and bought ... Accuphase, LOL.
The problem I have with EMM (apart from the build quality you rightly mentioned) was relative lack of bass impact weight and below avg PRAT. Ofc we are talking about RBCD mode - in SACD mode, EMM wins hands down.
Mtkhl567 - the sound of Accuphase DP-78 was a surprise for me as well. I have never really considered Accuphase products before. From what I was told, DP-78 represents a huge step forward over the previous DP-77. From the build quality point of view there, is simply no contest - Accuphase stuff is build like a swiss watch.
The particular EMM combo I tried was borrowed from a friend of mine. Iw was well run in, since it was 6 months old. It was sounding pretty good on its own right - I just happen to like the DP-78 more.
Thanks for your tip. Your timing is spot on, since I just sold the MBL player and I'm again in a "CD search" mode, LOL.
Recently I have auditioned Accuphase DP-500, Accuphase DP-78, EMM DCC2 se / CDSE se and the $32k Naim CD555, but none of them made me entirely happy (maybe except for Naim - but the $$$).
My current favourite is Accuphase DP-78, but I have yet to audition the new Accuphase DP-700, Wadia 581 SE, MBL 1511A/1521F combo and obviously, the ARC Ref-7.
After selling my AA Capitole mk II SE I have tried several different players from all price points, including - among other things - the whole Audio Aero line (wanted to stay brand loyal at first, so I tried the new Capitole Reference, Capitole Reference SE and SACD Prestige) and also the non signature EMM Labs CDSD/DCC2 combo.
None of them impressed me so much as the MBL 1531 at the time. It came as a surprise, since I have never really cared for any german Hi-Fi. The first time I switched it on, I was floored. Compared to the Capitole, the 1531 offered much higher resolution, much better bass & PRAT, better soundstage depth (surprise) and more laid back character in general (appart from the higher midrange that was a bit forward).
I have ~200 hours on Ref 110. It has opened up considerably, but still it's "flavor" revolves more around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity than pristine clarity, fine sharp details, speed, very extended top/bottom frequencies.
I had rewritten what I have just said - apparently, AgoN software deleted all the spacing upon posting, making it harder to read.
I added ARC Ref 3 and Ref 110 to my system and updated the pics accordingly.
Oanhu -> I like it very much. The Ref 3 is a class act. So much better, so much more transparent that the BAT 51SE. BAT sounds veiled and slow in comparision. Ref 110 is also an outstanding piece of gear. Out of the box it beats both Lamm M1.2 and Cary CAD-500MB monos in terms of tonality and soundstaging. It is still lacking a bit in terms of bass slamm and macro dynamics, but hopefully it will catch up, when the burn in process is complete. It sounds a bit warmer than the Ref 210, which is not a bad thing, considering the Ref 3 see through transparency and my preference for natural timbres and an easy flowing liquidity. IMO the Ref 110 is right now the amp with the best value-for-money ratio in the whole ARC lineup. VERY underrated.
Albertporter -> thank you very much. In person it looks much better - I wish I had a better camera and your skills to take the proper pics !
Audiodiver -> I sold the Eidolons with the best intention to upgrade to the Diamonds. Unfortunately, before I was able to place an order for the Diamonds, I spend most of the money on sth else, LOL. I'm self employed, and quite unexpectedly I needed the money for a certain new project. This is life. Oh well - I'm already in the saving mode again :-)
System edited: I added ARC Ref 3 and Ref 110 to my system and updated the pics accordingly. Oanhu -> I like it very much. Ref 3 is a class act. So much better, so much more transparent that the BAT 51SE. BAT sounds veiled and slow in comparision. Ref 110 is also an outstanding piece of gear. Out of the box it beats both Lamm M1.2 and Cary CAD-500MB monos in terms of tonality and soundstaging. It is still lacking a bit in terms of bass slamm and macro dynamics, but hopefully it will catch up, when the burn in proces is complete. It sounds a bit warmer than Ref 210, which is not a bad thing considering the Ref 3 see through transparency and my preference for natural timbres and an easy flowing liquidity. IMO Ref 110 is right now the amp with the best value-for-money ratio in the while ARC lineup. VERY underrated. Albertporter -> thank you very much. In person it looks much better - I wish I had a better camera and your skills to take the proper pics ! Audiodiver -> I sold the Eidolons with the best intention to upgrade to the Diamonds. Unfortunately, before I was able to place an order for the Diamonds, I spend most of the money on sth else, LOL. I'm self employed, and quite unexpectedly I needed money for a certain new project. This is life. Oh well - I'm already in the saving mode again :-)
The stats are on loan (in fact I just returned them). From the user point of view they are a nightmare - extremly inefficient (I measured 72dB/W/m !), with extreemly narrow sweet spot (you have to bolt your chair to the floor). From a sonic point of view - they are a revelation, esp. cosidering their modest price.
Utterly coherent, smooth, super fast and ultra transparent, with the palpability of sound that rivals everything I have heard to date. The you-are-there sensation is just uncanny.
Comparing to the Avalons, they lacked soundstage depth and their dynamic capabilities.
I have also had on loan Quad ESL-2805 and Maggies MG 3.6R, but they were no match for Audiostatics.
I may return to them, but first I would like to listen to some more speakers (Avalon Diamonds are one of them).
Ctchen -> I did bring home the TacT Millenium mk II at one point. Just like you I missed some warmth to the music, which I find very importand. To my ears TacT is just too dry sounding, ESPECIALLY when you want to pair it with ceramic based speakers, be it Avalons, Kharma or Marten Design.
A friend of mine, from whom I borrowed the TacT, uses it with Sonus Faber speakers, and that combination is much more synergistic with TacT, IMO.
Shade_of_pale - the best thing to do is to connect all your audio lines to one phase, and all the other stuff in the house to the two remaining phases. This way things like refrigerator, computer, A/C, dimmers etc. will not directly interfere with your audio system.
That is what I did.
Streetdaddy - I have tried many different amps: Lamms M1.2, Krell 700cx, Nagra VPA and PMA, Plinius 102, Classe monos, Ancient Audio GSM 300B 16W SET monos, ICE power and Tripath class-D designs, TacT Millenium mk II and prolly a half of dosen other amps I already forgotten. The Carys where the best transistor amps I tried, but still way behind the Ancient Audio SET monos.
Sdatch - yes. It is Klyne 7LX3.5/B. I borrowed if from a friend, who bought another pre. It sounds MUCH better than the BAT 51SE - the only downside is the stepped attenuator and lack of remote.
I'm looking for a new pre right now. I already bought a passive Plcette RVC (which also betters the BAT) but before making a final decision, I also want to try one of the transformer passive TVC preamps (TAP/Music First/Django).
Cipherjuris - yes I tried different tubes, includng the Siemens CCA. None made the Lamms sing to my ears. In fact, the stock russian tubes turned out to be quite good - better than some NOS I have tried.
System edited: I have just replaced my Lamm M1.2 Reference monos with Cary Audio CAD-500MB monos. I just couln't make the Lamms sing. Carys sound better to my ears, they have more full-bodied sound without loosing too much (if anything) in resolution or microdynamics department to the Lamms.
Basicly, those two maple towers you see on the front wall are huge mid-bass traps. As far as I remember, the upper and lower parts are tuned to 180Hz, and the center parts are tuned to 120Hz. The internal volume is divided into two smaller chambers by an MDF plate with lots of small holes in it. So basicly, the sound enters the traps by those front gaps, goes to the first chamber and then through the holes to the next chamber, where it can dissipate in a mineral fiber. I have added a "Custom absorbers" link at the top of this page so you can see how it is built.
System edited: I have just completed the front wall construction - we have added a custom made and custom designed absorbtion panels, made in maple finish. I have also upgraded my 12 months old McQuay A/C split system to ultra silent Daikin unit from Japan. The difference in noise levels generated by those two units is staggering. Daikin is so quiet (22dB) that you can barely hear it from the listening chair. There are CD-players that generate more noise than this ! The other outstanding feature of this unit is that it can work when outside temp drops to 10'F - so it can be used during winter too.
Jaspar - please explain what "them" you are reffering to.
As for the room acoustics - it is almst perfect right now (look at the RT-60 graph) - not too lively, not too damped. Just right. It may look (and is) empty, but the room acoustics is shaped here by a combination of absorbers/difusers, not by pieces of furniture. Adding a thicker rug would probably make the room over damped.
System edited: Sold the AA capitole player. I'm currently running Krell KPS-20i that I borrowed from a friend. The search of the Capitole replacement is still runing. So far, I have tried AA Capitole Reference, AA Capitole Reference Signature/SE, EMM Labs CDSD/DCC2 and MBL 1531. I have to say that the last one was head and shoulders above the rest (and is was NOT the most expensive of the lot) and I may end up getting this one eventually. I also added some new pics. The wall behind the speakers IS NOT ready yet. Stay tuned.
I know that AA is now a bit behind both Avalons and Lamms, but it also is the oldest piece in my system. I'm currently selling it. I already have a new AA Capitole Reference at home, which is a bit better sounding. It is on dealer loan, 'cos I also want to try the Reference Signature and SACD Prestige before I hit the trigger. A friend of mine also promised to bring his EMM DCC2/CDSD, so I can see where I am right now.
As for PC - I have tried both Anaconda Vx and Python Vx on my source components (I didn't have the high current versions to try them on my Lamms; besides I only got one of each). I didn't like the sound all that much, really. They lacked some ambience information and HF-air to my ears. I have also tried Supra LoRad, Fadel, AQ NRG-5, Acoustic Zen Gargantua II, Cardas Golden Reference, Nordost Valhalla and Tara Labs The One. Of all the cables I have tried, on AA I clearly prefered TL The One and that is what I'm using right now.
The BAT pre and Lamms are now powered with Valhallas. They are my preferable chioice here. In fact, those are BY FAR the best PCs I have tried on BAT and Lamms. Too bad they are on dealer loan and cost THAT much. When I'm done with my CDP, I will have to start saving for Valhallas.
For now the venerable AQ NRG-5 will have to do. They didn't make a synergistic match with AA (here I can agree with you 100%), but on the Lamms they sound not bad at all. Clearly not as good as Valhallas, but listenable. They were 5x cheaper afterall.
Luke72 - well the room is almost done. We are still missing some diffusors/absorbers on the wall behing the speakers. We chave choosen the idea of small steps - we measure things, design a few new bits, measure again, analyse how it affected the sound quality, do some changes, measure again and so on, and so on. It is a time consuming process, but so far I'm very pleased with the outcome.
I have already the system up and running in that room.
System edited: Added latest RT-60 graph. Black trace is target curve, blue is base curve (empty room, no acoustic treatment, no floor), red curve shows how the room responded after ACS diffusors, wooden floor and sand stone were added. Green curve is the most recent one. It is still not perfect, but we are working on it.
System edited: I have added some new pictures. This time only side and rear wall since the front wall (and ceiling) is still not finished. BTW - The Lamms are doing great. The are much better tan BAT VK-150SE, Nagra VPA & PMA, Krell FPB-700cx and Classe M400 I tried before getting the Lamms.
System edited: Sold my beloved AudioQuest Kilimanjaro speaker cables (they are really incredible) and went all the way - just got the AudioQuest Everest. As much as I like the KJ, the Everest is even better. I also replaced my Transparent Reference w/MM ICs with AudioQuest SKY ICs. They offer MUCH improved resolution over TA, without sounding thin or etched.
Colinandsue - thanks for your input. I haven't heard the 302, but I have heard several other ICEpower based amps and all lacked some midrange warmth and harmonic completness, which - at least for me - is essential. It is a shame Rowland stopped making the old, Class A models - 8 and 9. The old ones could really make a perfect match.
BTW - Jeff Rowland didn't started Avalon. Avalon was started in 1988 by Charlie Hansen (of Ayre fame) and then sold to Jeff Rowland, who in turn sold Avalon (just after a year of ownership) to the current owner and designer - Neil Pattel - in 1990. Not many ppl know that.
I have heard it many times that Eidolons reqire LOTS of Watts to drive them properly. Interestigly, so far I got best resouls using GM70 based SET amp, which was only 30W per channel. Funny, isn't it ?
There is neither VTL not Manley dealer where I live, so I will probably have to skip those two. Plus, I have heard ppl having too many reliability problems with VTL gear, to take it into serious consideration.
Cello amps are no longer made, so I will rather skip those as well. But I'm not giving up Cello completly - after I got back from CES I will try Viola Labs amps in my system. I was told that Viola Labs is run by former Cello engineers, so who knows - maybe they will sound as good if not better than Cello Duets you mentioned.
