Updates on room construction?

agear December 04, 2015 02:03

Lissnr, when I still had my ST100, your description of the KT120s lines up with my experience. Great bass and dynamics but ever so slightly incisive.

agear September 16, 2015 17:03

Maggies are fun. I did my medical training in MN (where they are made) and heard them many times. I have always been a planar fan but shied away due to room logistics, etc. I have several friends telling me to go with Sound Labs. My wife would shoot me...:)

Speaker setup is a science indeed.....

agear August 13, 2015 14:12

Gallant, I agree with your approach. The Apogees are the sticky wicket in this whole equation, and they may be more room insensitive than a standard box speaker. In that vein, chasing rigidity or sonic stillness or inner silence or whatever that phenomenon is may be the way.

I chose to go after mechanical grounded walls (ala Starsound) in combination with a mass loaded horn structure on the front wall to create the Imax experience I now enjoy. I like to think about it (with a minimum of technical knowledge) in terms of efficiency. Like a good amphitheater or the "Whispering Wall" at my alma mater (http://uvamagazine.org/articles/five_quirks, efficient transmission of sound is bewitching. Most systems and rooms strain to do it. You have to crank it for life to spring forth.....

Whether people admit it or not, every room is an open experiment. Enjoy.

agear August 11, 2015 21:08

Gallant, a lot of the answers to your questions are dictated by your budget. Most sound rooms are some derivative of rigidity and sound isolation +/- aftermarket acoustic treatments. To go beyond that, you have to spend serious money...like what Mike L has into his tonearm and needle....:)

What are your plans for power?

agear August 11, 2015 14:44

That sounds good Gallant. Talk to Rubyboogie, He is in the building industry and should have some good insights regarding construction.

agear August 10, 2015 18:28

Gallant, I would pimp Rugyboogie for more explicit details on his approach to room dimension ala Toole. I did not have control over exact dimensions as my room was grafted into a full basement remodel. My room is 13.5 x 17.5 x 8.25. Bp24 is right. Cardas does have some suggestions for a "golden ratio" room:

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_golden_trapagon.php

agear August 10, 2015 02:04

In all seriousness, depending on your budget, designing a "room within a room" using Floyd Toole's ratios is a reasonable approach:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vopin&1130221775

Mike knows him and can chime in.

Gallant, I agree about avoiding treatments that are parasitic (bass traps, absorbent panels) and focusing on diffusion. Use those things in a stepwise fashion and use your ears.

agear August 04, 2015 20:58

08-04-15: Gallant_diva
I have an announcement to make, sharing a good news with all audio friends: I am going to build a new media room, all from scratch. It will be 28x17 in size, about 12 feet high ceiling. I have no unlimited budget as our friend Mike does :), so the objectives are: SSB (Simple. Solid, Budgeted). Thus the start will be a solid room with good topology. The room will allow additions (such as diffusors -- I don't like absorbers or bass traps). It will have slanted ceiling, so parallel walls, and concrete blocks based walls, no windows, one door, and rock bottom floor.
All power cabling in underground pipes.

Will take advice and opinions including from Mike Levine and Agear.

Oooo. That is good news. I recommend following Winston Ma's blueprint:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/maroom.htm

agear August 04, 2015 17:57

07-21-15: Gallant_diva
Agear: Sorry for the late reply. I have not heard Analysis Audio speaker except the smallest one and even that was a short encounter. So I have no positive or negative opinion about the, I like the panel speakers tough. I think Maggies are great speakers although their midrange will never come close to that of the Apogees.

No worries. I am a fan too. I know from others that Lissnr is getting great sound from his setup....kuddos to you all....

agear July 22, 2015 18:33

05-03-15: Gallant_diva

The bass of the big Apogee is full and ripe. Initially it was not optimal but I added a specialized transformer in my amp to drive the bass panel without its autoformer. After that the bass slammed became heavier. The speaker goes up to 30 Hz and shakes up the room easily. I have experimental with adding subs just to overcome the itch but I prefer the sound without the subs. In fact, at times the Apogee bass is so empowering that it feels subs are running even when they are not.

I also do not like the bass from woofers bigger than 10" because their mass is just hard to stop once it they start moving the air. I have listened to some good bass from woofer speakers but every time it was 10" or smaller cone.
Once I was with friends at a dealer in Hong Kong. We listened to the big Kharma $250,000 speaker driven by equally expensive electronics. The abrasive midrange combined with big fat boomy bass hitting my shins was simply unbearing.

I am also a fan of 2-way but not 3-way speakers when it comes to dynamic speakers....but it is all personal preference, you know.
Gallant_diva (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

I agree with your sentiments. I see that you were selling a set of your Apogees. What do you think of Analysis Audio panels? The US distributor is in my backyard and I was curious to hear them....

agear May 20, 2015 14:10

Gallant, I see that you are selling one set of your Apogees. Do you have any plans for the funds generated?

Have you heard Analysis Audio panels and if so what do you think of them?

agear April 30, 2015 19:43

agear, you asking me to post my whole "audio biography" here :) I will post soon ....just the summary.

:) more or less I guess. I love Maggies too. I spent over 10 years in Minnesota for medical training and Minnesota is Maggie central. I heard them often.

Anyway, the cliff note version of your planar journey would be fine.....

agear February 25, 2014 15:42

GD, since you are the panel maven, what steered you to where you are speaker wise? I don't own panels but have always been a fan. My choice of box speaker was partly predicated on finding something with panel attributes (transparency and speed among others). I shied away from them partly due to size and room logistics. The lead engineer for Carey Audio lives in Charlotte and he is bending my ear about Soundlabs. My wife would fly into a homicidal rage if I ever bought those monstrosities....

agear February 21, 2014 16:19

My view is this. I have always been pleasantly surprised by vibration dampening effect on sound quality. Potted inductors, weight added to components and stands etc. I think some of the duelund sound is about this. The cap being so compressed and solid as part of its manufacture.

That's it. I have friends in the Starsound camp who have noted improvements in performance with mechanical grounding of transformers, caps, circuit boards, chassis, xovers, etc, etc.

GD, the Dale I was referring to is Dale Pitcher from Intuitive Design. He is another proponent of vibration management.....

agear February 16, 2014 15:02

GD, I have been to Dallas a few times in the last few years for conferences (I am in medicine). If I do make it there again, expect a call.

agear February 15, 2014 22:04

Agear, thank you for the kind words. I know you got a Dude. But am curious what is your rest of the system.

If you are in Texas, let me know and we will arrange a listening session at my place.

GD, my system has been in a state of flux for close to 2 years. We finished our basement just recently and I had the opportunity to construct a dedicated room which is almost completed and I will document at some point on AG. We have a two year old and more coming, so in my paranoia I sold my TRL ensemble (Dude and ST-100) and Gamma Summit Intuitive Design speakers for safety concerns. The ST-100s were a marvel and I will return at some point when it is practical. The speakers were 100lb granite monitors that were potentially mobile on still points. I am awaiting a new floor stander from Dale Pitcher in the next 4-6 weeks. As for amplification, I farted around the an ASR Emitter I Blue Exclusive, and then NeoDio integrated both of which were very good but did not hold my interest. My new speaker is going to be a much easier load (8 ohm and 93dB) and thus I wanted to experiment with SETs. I picked up a Viva Solista used and its very, very good but again a potential menace to the little people. Dale is designing a class A amp with line level xover that will fit into the dedicated speaker stand, and that is most likely where I will land.

I agree with your statement about the importance of source, and I have spent quite a bit of psychic energy on that topic. Paul at TRL was always harassing me to go down the master tape trail, but its not practical. Even though I am a child of the digital generation and don't own or pursue vinyl, it is still better than digital IMO and everything I pursue is simply to create a sonic analog of analog! Computers bring with them a rat's nest of problems, and it takes considerable time and energy to get things right. I am actively looking at purchasing a Lampizator L7 tubed dac along with a computer-less transport of some sort (preferably wireless) that can be feed via a NAS.

GD, if my memory serves me correctly, isn't computer science your background? Thoughts? I am sure of a lot of audiophile flailing in this arena amuses you.....:)

And yes, I will be looking you up if I am ever in Dallas for a conference....

agear February 09, 2014 21:14

Welcome back. Awesome system, particularly those amp monstrosities. Got to luv Paul Weitzel from TRL. God bless him...

agear February 02, 2014 01:03