System ca. 2008

by shadorne on V. OLD SETUP NOT CURRENT
View forward - speakers behind grill
Picture frame soffit mount
Sub on left looks small but isn't
Listening position & log RPG diffuser
Taken with my AF-S Nikkor 18-200MM DX VR
Roland TD-9 V-Drums

Description

Studio style flush (soffit) speaker mounting - speakers are mounted into a wall with drivers flush with wall surface. Note that this is not simply an HT cabinet - all of this was custom built with extra thick MDF and heavily braced to eliminate vibration. Speaker is decoupled from framing with rubber pads and surrounded with 8 inches of pink acoustic fibreglass on all sides.

The bookshelves above are intended to absorb some lower frequencies, as is the log fire place which is 8 feet behind the listening position. More acoustic absorption is achieved by four massive GIK Tri-Traps. The audio signal that goes to the subwoofer is treated separately by a PEQ with specific notch filters to eliminate LF room modes.

The down firing ATC 15" subwoofer is driven by its on board 1000 Watt amp (positioned to the left of the main speakers). Active ATC main speakers have three separate (Class A to two thirds power) amps each for each driver: 200 Watts amp to each 12" woofer, separate 100 Watts amp to each mid range and separate 50 Watts amp to each tweeter.

Five giant Sony Megachangers are controlled at the touch of the keyboard trackball, all from the listening chair (software controlled from the Mac Mini). Each of these five Megachangers TOSLINK output is connected to a Benchmark DAC1. The DAC1 corrects for the jittery TOSLINK outputs and produces a sound quality way beyond the modest price of the combination.

All in all I try to combine convenience with a pretty high end sound.

Doug Sax of Sheffield Labs fame uses soffit mounted active ATC speakers driven by Benchmark DAC1's in his studio. I figure what is good enough for Doug Sax's "golden ears" is certainly good enough for my "tin ears"! Besides, as so much music is mastered by Doug it is nice to hear it as close as possible to the way he does when mastering.
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Components Toggle details

    • Waterfall in room Bass Response Plot
    Flat response, no significant resonance and smooth even decay down to 20 Hz.
    • In room Frequency Response Bass Plot
    Blue plot is before EQ correction to the sub. Red is the corrected in room response. Speakers are run full range flat with no EQ or tone control.
    • T30 Room Reverb RT60 Decay Time
    This shows the reverb decay time it takes for sound to decay to -60 db. A value of 0.4 is considered ideal for my large 7000 cu feet room. It is acceptable for reverb decay time to rise in the extreme LF provided it stays below 1.1 (for this size room). It is important that the room is balanced with no spikes in reverb time. Room reverb is much more important than a perfectly flat frequency response.
    • ATC SCM-100A
    Active Speakers 12" Woofer, 3" dome mid,1" tweet, separate 275W,100W, 50W amps
    • ATC SCM-0.1/15
    Active sub 15" Woofer driven by 1000W amp
    • ATC SCM-20SL
    Surrounds - Passive ATC 75mm dome mid range grafted on ATC 150mm woofer with 1 inch dome tweeter(vifa). You can see them on top of fireplace, which is on rear wall (facing front speakers)
    • Benchmark DAC1
    Each of my five CDP Megachangers TOSLINK is fed to a Benchmark DAC1 which does the D to A conversion after eliminating the TOSLINK Jitter
    • Sony CDP-CX350 (Five of them)
    CD Mega Changer 300 dics - controlled by Sony A1 through Slink-e and Apple Mac Mini
    • Anthem AVM-20
    Surround Processor
    • Bryston 4B-ST
    Drives L and R surrounds
    • GIK Acoustics (Four of them) Tri-Trap
    Triangular Bass Trap, 4 foot, 17x17x24 inch crossection, 3 Units on back wall and one unit is on the front wall.
    • Fireplace but actually stealthy Bass Trap & RPG Skyline diffuser
    18" Logs stacked perpendicular to the rear wall in random fashion. Bark is left on the logs to help sound absorbing surfaces between logs. Logs vary in length to give a skyline diffuser surface.
    • Beringer DSP1124P
    Parametric EQ used on Sub Woofer for Room Modal Response control.
    • Macintosh G4 Mini Titletrack Jukebox
    I am not generally a tweaker. EQ adjustments for room modes on the sub and speaker soffit is all I do. I use my Macintosh G4 and Titletrack Jukebox software to control everything: browse/find music and set playlists, stage CD's to changers for continuous cued music playback from five Sony mega CD Changers, or iTunes. Mac mini also controls all equipment settings (RS232 to infra-red adapters).
    • Sony BD S300
    Blu-ray Player
    • American Power Conversion AV H15
    1.5 Kva
    • RAW RESPONSE LEFT SPEAKER - NO SUB
    Raw unfiltered response - no subwoofer

Comments 105

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Shadorne,

I've never seen nor heard ATCs, but they sound like my kind of speaker!

mapman

Owner
Someone keeps pushing the ATCs as a choice I should have gone for but I love the planar/stat sound too much.

ATC's come close (but do not surpass) a great planar/stat sound for midrange clarity/detail - so stick to what you love! For me, it is all the other things ATC do so well that makes them work for me - for example percussion.

shadorne

This is a very nicely integrated setup you have here, discrete at one point but totally in your face when you let the beast loose! Someone keeps pushing the ATCs as a choice I should have gone for but I love the planar/stat sound too much.

sfdude

Again, very cool system, as well as room. Those couches look comfortable. Where do you live? When can I come over? Just kidding, sort of... I do I wish I had an ATC dealer nearby.

And, your discussion with Zigonht about pushing kids into sports + music brought back good and bad memories of a basketball house that I happen to grow up in. I've got a 5 y/o daughter and I've been contemplating how hard to push stuff. So, thank you both for your stories and perspective.

sammie

I love the ATC's. Now that's an underated home speaker (except to industry pros with homes). Beautiful room. Love it.

chashmal

Shadorne,

My teenage son just got a drum set.

And you are right, it has great dynamics and makes some excellent noise!

mapman

Shadorne, very well done. I guess those ATC speakers produce very good surround sound. I like your furniture, you seem to have good taste!

cappuccino

I do love your system w/ pro gear. I've been moving that direction myself. My first purchase was the pro DAC, now I'm looking for active monitors. If recording studios monitor this way why shouldn't I.

After seeing your system I'm looking into the mega CD changers for my CD storage. The benchmark should porcess it quite well. I'm even looking at the Tascam CD-160Mk II studio cdp for single disc playback. I have a lot to consider. Next purchase will be good active monitors after I sell my tube amp.

mjcmt

Sharorne,

I actually stopped playing from 10 till 13 because my mom kept getting on me to practice, practice, practice.. It got to the point where it wasnt fun. I did not mention the fact that my parents bought me a Fender Strat(American Made), as my first guitar, so I am sure that had a lot to do with her pushing me.. Once I started getting into music thats what made me want to get back into it....Still play today....

I think children at that age want to try everything. Then once they do they get boared and want to move onto something else.. Especially in todays day and age of computers, video games etc. Not everyone is Tiger Woods starting out at the age of 1!! LOL...

At this age I look at it as them trying new things till they find the one they REALLY like. BUT, school is different even 1st grade, homework and reading have to be done everyday...Dads rule...lolol...

zigonht

Owner
ZigonHT,

So it took 3 years for you (from 10 to 13). And that is the difficulty I face as three years is a long time to keep pushing...even if it is a mere 20 minutes a day and one hour lesson a week (with summers off). I really appreciate your suggsetions.

For example, I pushed our other daughter into figure skating (extremely expensive - I would not recommend it at all) and it also took her about 3 years to get going. After that she won so many medals and competitions and had so many friends and was so healthy that she never looked back. She only gave this up recently (stopped at attempting triple jumps) but it was a great sport for her for 10 years. She holds herself very well because of it.

Unfortunately really difficult things become rewarding ONLY after significant effort...so in hindsight are you glad your Mum pushed a little or not?

shadorne

Shadorne,

I started guitar lessons when I was 10. I took lessons for about a year, when it started to seem more like a job then fun,(mom would always be after me to practice, and would bring up the cost of the lessons and how it I wasn't going to practice is was wasting their hard earned $$). Geez it seems like yesterday...Anyways, when I was 13 thats when music started to hit me. I met a kid in school who could play Van Halen, Sabbatha, etc. like he had been doing it his whole life..I was hooked..

I have three little guys (5,5,7). The 7yr old loves to sit down at my keyboard and tinker around. I showed her basic notes etc. and it really excites her how music works and how songs are put together.

For me there was no interest in the technical stuff when I was 10 and it began to bore me. For my daughter it is interesting. However I would never push unless it was for her enjoyment. Once you make it a chore the fun is gone...Especially, for younger kids such as your 8yr old.

zigonht

Owner
Zigonht,

I have come to the conclusion that Neil Peart has absolutely no cause for alarm. I am still having great fun though and nearly fininshed the first book or basic drum lessons. My 8 year old is playing well too but she needs a strong push to practice (only 10 to 20 minutes a day + 1 hour a week instructor) - I am not sure how long I should keep pushing before letting her decide if she really wants to continue ( I would like her to be able to partcipate in high school band as musician). It is only three months so far since we begun - not perhaps enough to get into it but long enough that the initial excitement/novelty is conmpletely gone.

What do YOU think is fair for me to push her - 6 months or a year or longer at this modest pace?

shadorne

Shadorne,

How are we making out with the drums? Will you be performing in NY anytime soon?? They look sweet...Enjoy the weekend..

zigonht

Owner
Would the soffit installation work for any box speaker that has a flat front baffle and no rear radiation drivers or ports, such as classic acoustical suspension designs?

Yes, however you get a 6 db bass boost. (same as if you place the speakers right up against the wall) So choose a speaker lean or light in the bass and expect to need to use some EQ or tone control.

Does this concept involve constructing an opening just large enough to accommodate the speaker box, then installing the speaker flush with the face of the wall or room divider?

The best is to make a larger opening so you have room to adjust position and then fill it with acoustic batting (fiberglass or rockwool) and make a picture frame for the speaker (make a smooth transition)

Cabinetry needs to be a lot more solid than usual - and heavily braced.

shadorne

Hi Shadone, congratulations on a nice appearing and well thought out installation.

Although I've been in this hobby for decades and have seen a few "professional studio" installation pictures, I never gave a thought to soffit mounting speakers. Your old ATC link for Sax's studio did not work so a couple of questions.

Would the soffit installation work for any box speaker that has a flat front baffle and no rear radiation drivers or ports, such as classic acoustical suspension designs?

Does this concept involve constructing an opening just large enough to accommodate the speaker box, then installing the speaker flush with the face of the wall or room divider? Your pictures are quite dark so it is difficult to see details. From your description it sounds as if you had constructed a large room divider that contains all your electronics plus your main speakers.

Thanks for further info.

pryso

Shadone,

Very nice how, you have incorporated the set (almost invisible) into the nicely decorated room. My girlfriend would die to have this at our place.

Keep on the good work !!

philippevdb01

Owner
Slipknot,

Are you planning something similar?

The fireplace is a modern high efficiency gas burner with fake logs, and a glass enclosed fire box (no draft) - so I can't actually use the wood and it is simply a decorative way to gain significant rear wall acoustic absorption in lower frequencies and dispersion in higher frequencies. The bigger and more random the better!

I tend to concentrate on copying pro setups for my acoustics and pros often treat the wall behind the listener like this and this. Of course domestic concerns mean that a fireplace is infinitely preferable to what you see in these pictures.

shadorne

Do you replace the logs as you burn through them? That's actually a pretty good wood storage solution you have there.

slipknot1

Congrats on the kit! I agree on the V-Drums. Because all of the members of our rack band have small children, they have proven to be an indispensable practice tool, while allowing everyone involved to save their hearing (so they can enjoy thir hi-fis...). I don't know how they approximate the little touch elements so well, but I doff my proverbial hat to the technical folks at Roland.

sdatch

Owner
System edited: V-Drum set installed March 31st, 2008. This is the new Roland TD9-KX with all mesh pads. This is one of the very first kits to arrive in Canada - it sounds awesome hooked up to the main speakers and sub. Now I am really ready to make some noise :D

shadorne

Hi Shadorne,

You have said that the ATC's are a little forward and may sound slightly bright, I was Interested to see that you use a plethora of the cheaper Sony cd's In your system (not a criticism by the way as I have in the past used a Sony 761es which was very cheap but had a superb sound) which I know the sony's do err a little on the brighter side, not in a bad way. How does that affect the sound you hear with your gear?
Nice set up all the same that you have got there!

gawdbless

Hi Shadorne,

I like your comments, especially in the cable section, so I thought I'd take a look-see of your system (s).

Everything seems to be in order.

The most unusual thing I saw the french door peeking out. That looks surprisingly like my 100 year old doors. The dark wood, and obscured glass makes it similar.

Anyway, I enjoy your writings. You are a free thinker. I appreciate that.

Vince

muralman1

After looking at your system Shardone I now understand your interest in JGH's speakers (and system). :) A dealer I know in Chicago sold ATC's and spoke highly of them, very highly, but I didn't always trust him; but a friend I do trust heard his speakers, I forget the model, they were somewhere aroung $15k at the time, and he reassured me they were awesome. The dealer I purchased my W/P's from also uses ATC's in his home.

brianmgrarcom

A subwoofer?...maybe you need to get some main spkrs that can represent the whole range!....just kidding! Nice system! I haven't any idea what I'd do if I had this kind of money to spend, but clearly you know what you're doing. I hope you spend as much time choosing the music. Best regards, Strassman.

strassman

Shadone, I thought I knew some things about audio,but it appears as if my years are showing.I am staying clear ,as the above is totally "greek"to me.Hope you are enjoying it none the less.Happy listening.

tpsonic

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