Arthur Salvatore did an extensive comparison of the Frankenstein and Dragon amplifiers a few months ago on his web site. You have a different room, system and of course ears. I'm curious to read how your outcome compares to his, fun stuff. Charles,
I am now a little more than 200 hours into the 400 hour break-in process for the V-Cap CuTF modification made to the 6EM7 input coupling stage of my Frankenstein power amplifiers.
The change in sound from day 1 of the break-in process to the sound quality I am experiencing today is nothing short of amazing. What makes the audio transformation even more spectacular to my ears is that I am using a relatively inexpensive CD player (I am an analog only household for the most part) and I am also using cheap 300B tubes.
I hope to start a long term comparison of the Frankenstein to the Dragon by mid-August. I also plan to compare various 211 and 300B tubes during this process.
My comparison will be conducted using the most updated version of the Tchaik 6 power conditioner from Dave Stanard at Silver Circle Audio.
I am going to delay my planned long term comparison of the Frankensteins to the Dragons until some further clarification is brought to the issue of using Elrog 300B tubes in the Frankensteins.
I have the Coincident Line stage and Frankenstein amplifiers driving the Total Eclipse II speakers. Dynamics,liveliness and palpable energy are no problems for my listening needs. But that's me, Abill may have different needs and priorities thus the 75 watt push pull Dragon amplifier may be more suitable in his situation. I listen at moderate levels on average 75-85 db. If Abill's listening levels are much higher and his type of music is of high energy and bass content then perhaps the push pull amplifier would be more in his direction of desire. What works for one individual may not satisfy another. In my case the Frankenstein and Total Eclipse are a beautiful match in my home. Charles,
Considering the efficiency of my Coincident Total Reference speakers, there is not as much of a trade off between these two amplifiers as you might think. I must emphasize that the Coincident Statement 101D Line Stage really helps to fully reveal the strengths of each amplifier.
The Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers are 94 db efficient, so I suspect you will enjoy these speakers with the Frankensteins.
It seems like there would be a trade off with the two amps. The dragons giving more power and wallop with its 75 watts of push pull vs. the franks 8 watts of SET magic. I'm looking to get the Coincident Total Eclipse II, so it will be interesting to find out which amp I like better driving these speakers.
Abill- Do you live close to Southern Oregon by any chance?
It may be too soon to give you a fair comparison between the Frankensteins and the Dragons.
I originally purchased the Frankenstein before it was even given the MKI designation. I recently purchased the MKII but with the V-Cap CuTF pure copper Fluoropolymer capacitor modification recommended by Art Salvatore. I am approximately 70 hours into a very long break in period.
One positive observation I have already made is that the Frankenstein MKII is almost dead quiet in comparison to my original Frankensteins.
Some time ago, I upgraded from the Dragon MKI to the Dragon MKII. The MKII was definitely more quiet than the MKI. My MKII Dragons are one of very first serial numbers produced so they do not have the upgrades of the current MKII Dragons.
I recently experienced a catastrophic failure with one of my Elrog 211 tubes which caused some damage to the Dragon amplifier. The Dragons are in for service now and I should know within the next 2 days the extent of the damage in the one amplifier.
After the amplifier is repaired, I may decide to purchase the most current version of the Dragons.
My listening room is a dedicated space and it is fairly large - 31 feet in length, 16 feet wide by 12 1/2 feet high. My Coincident Total Reference speakers are fairly efficient at 98 db@1m-1w. I decided to purchase the Dragon MKI because my original Frankensteins could not reach the volume levels I desired with some of my favorite progressive rock music.
The Dragon MKI and MKII are more than capable of driving the Coincident Total Reference speakers to ear shattering volume levels.
I am planning a long term comparison of the Frankenstein MKIIs to the current version of the Dragons. The 300B tubes used for this comparison will be Takatsuki, Elrog and AVVT. Since the Frankenstein MKIIs now have a second fuse protecting the amplifier in the event the 300B tube fails, I am not overly concerned about using the Elrog tubes here. However, I am no longer comfortable using the Elrog 211 tubes in the Dragons, so I will be using NOS RCA, NOS GE and Psvane tubes.
The Frankensteins and the Dragons are capable of making incredible music in my listening space. Once I start the comparison, I will regularly report my findings here. I think I can safely say that in the more than forty years that I have been purchasing audio equipment, no company has provided better overall value in their equipment offerings than Coincident has.
I would be interested in reading about the differences in the Frankenstein and Dragon amps.
I have the Franks MKII and was thinking about selling the Franks and getting the Dragons.I will say I do enjoy the Franks but I would like a little more weight to the presentation without losing low level detail if possible.
Is the music with the Dragons a little more dynamic ?
Tmmvinyl, I'm curious to hear your thoughts about the sonic differences you hear between the Dragons and Franks? I have the dragons and hope to get some Coincident speakers soon.
Charles, I had planned to install some lightly used Sophia 300B tubes I had in my tube inventory during the extended break-in period; however, I just realized that using Sophia tubes in the Frankensteins will violate the terms of Coincident's warranty.
To make the best of a bad situation, I am now finding the time to play music on CD that I do not have on vinyl.
400 hours is quite an extended burn in period for certain. A cheap pair of Chinese 300bs might be a good idea to get those 400 hours(or most of them). At least this would preserve your better quality 300bs during this period.
The Jupiter copper foils sound very good brand new and seemed fully burned in with roughly 50-60 hours on them. Their lack of teflon is likely why they require far less break in time. Charles,
Art Salvatore and others have had much success with the V-Cap CuTF modification to the Frankensteins. Israel and the V-Cap manufacturer made me aware prior to the modification that the break-in period would extend beyond 400 hours. Now that I have started the actual break-in marathon there is no looking back. However, 400 hours of break-in also means exhausting useful tube life. My plan is to run a cheap CD player approximately 10 hours a day until the magic returns.
Those are highly regarded capacitors so I'll assume it's a matter of burn in requirements. The stock Solens cap is very good sounding in this location. The Jupiter copper foil I used is better but there's certainly no night and day improvement. Charles,
I have started the long, tedious break-in process for the V-Cap CuTF capacitors (Copper Foil, Fluoropolymer Film) recently installed on my Coincident Frankenstein 300B MKII amplifiers at the 6EM7 input coupling stage. I am very familiar with this incredible sounding amplifier and to say that things now sound horribly wrong is an understatement of epic proportion. Someone please shoot me.
Undercurrent and Midnight Blue are in fairly regular rotation here. I had a fairly short listening session this evening - both sides of Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus - an original deep groove pressing on the Candid label. Dolphy's time with Mingus was well spent as evidenced by his playing on this record.
Hi Tmmvinyl, They were recorded in 1958 so there must be original and very likely 2nd pressings available out there. The CD versions I have are very natural sounding. By the way I'm listening to kenny Burrell and kenny Drew recordings tonight. Charles,
I'm referring to "Dance Party California" there are a total of 7 volumes, all are live and done in 1958(while touring California Air Force bases).Well recorded excellent music. Charles,
Tmmvinyl, I use the High Fidelity CT1-Ultimate digital cable, pricey but superb sounding. A full loom of their cables can get very expensive, no doubt. I'm very happy using the Ocellia Silver Reference analog ICs and speaker cable. Regarding Duke Ellington, his Dance Party series of recordings are very good. Live recordings done touring Air Force bases during 1958. Charles,
I am not familiar with the Hicks recording, but Dolphy and Little at the Five Spot is a winner.
Tonight's listening session started with both sides of Duke Ellinton's Blues in Orbit and ended with both sides of Grachan Moncur's Evolution. However, my Girlfriend questioned my decision to sandwich in between those recordings Side 3 of Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans titled The Ancient/Giants Under the Sun. I guess you had to be there. To my ears it was memorable.
I am giving some thought to auditioning one or more High Fidelity cables after I break in the new Frankensteins. I recall that you have at least one High Fidelity cable in your system. I get sticker shock every time I look at the prices of their upper tier offerings.
I don't believe that you can go wrong with any of those 3 capacitors as upgrades.I love the results of using the Duelund CAST in my speakers and DAC. "Out To Lunch" is a good one. I really like "Eric Dolphy At The Five Spot". He and Booker Little were a very good pairing. Right now I'm listening to John Hicks, "Music In The Key Of Clark" a tribute to Sonny Clark's compositions. Hicks is one fine pianist. Charles,
Charles, I will be replacing the stock Solen capacitor with the V-Cap CuTF (copper foil fluoropolymer film).47 UF 600V. I elected to install the V-Cap instead of either the Jupiter or the Dueland primarily because I previously achieved extraordinary results with the V-Caps when modifying my Audion Quattro pre-amplifiers. I am looking forward to revisiting my Takatsuki/Elrog comparison with my newly modified MKII amplifiers. Eric Dolphy's Out to Lunch will be first out of the gate.
My taste in jazz extends from the Bebop era and moves onward from there. I have a lot of Miles, Coltrane, Monk etc. I'm not a fan of the "free jazz" idiom. The Takatsuki is a superb 3000b tube and I understand that some will prefer it to the Elrog. For my listening preferences the Elrog is the best I've heard. The Solen capacitor is actually very good in the Frankenstein but the Jupiter copper foil is a modest but noticeable improvement. I know Arthur Salvatore has used the Vcap copper foil in place of the Solens. Charles,
