Description

I've been into hifi for about 20 years. It has taken a long time for my system to evolve to this level.

My first system included Magnepan Model III's, a Sota turntable, Acoustat TNP Preamp, and two Acoustat TNT-200 for biamping. At the time it was a hot system, and in someways I miss it. However the sound was never as good as it is now.

I got into the Levinson gear by chance, with a #380s, 336, 39, and Revel Studios. I decided I liked the sound, and have slowly upgraded. I like the sound of tube gear, but I prefer the slam, speed, and reliability of solid state. The Levinson sound seems to be the best of both solid state and tube gear. 'm always open to bettering my system, so if you've done any comparisons between brands, I'd be glad to hear your results.

I just built my new listening room (Summer, 2003). It has made an incredible difference. If you've spent some bucks on your system and want to take it to the next level, this is the way to go. You'll get much more bang for your dollar than by upgrading your components.

My musical tastes run the gamut from classical, ragtime (I play ragtime piano!), blues, jazz, new age, country, bluegrass, rock, and heavy metal. If it the music is recorded well, I'll listen to it.

I would sure value any opinions or suggestions you have in improving my system as I'm always trying to find just a few more notes . . .

I plan to continually upgrade and improve my system as funds allow. I'm very interested in the new digital formats, but I'm waiting for the dust to settle.

So thanks in advance for your comments, and if you live in the St. Louis area, or are traveling through let me know, you're welcome to stop by for a listen.

Good listening,

Sgr
Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 26’ × 13’  Large
Ceiling: N/A


Components Toggle details

    • The Isolated Listening Room designed and constructed by SGR
    I have discovered that the listening room is the most important component. As a result, I've listed this tweak first, before all other components. The new listening room is the key to my sound. My room is built in the basement. I based the construction on ideas from Rives Audio, ASC IsoWalls, Auralex Acoustics, plus my own experiences and knowledge gained from Audiogoners. Once the room was framed I mounted Resilient Channel (RC-1 )on the ceiling and walls. Next came layer of 5/8 drywall, then B-Quiet Extreme was placed on the drywall as per the Iso-Wall outline, then another layer of 1/2 inch greenboard drywall. Attention to each detail of the hints on the ASC Iso Wall were followed. It really slowed construction down, but the results are worth it. If I had it to over again, I'd buy their kit instead of finding alternative but similar products. The room was constucted with an audiophile's growth in mind, so their are 18 dedicated lines, wired with 10 gauge Romex type wire, with hospital grade outlets that I hope to upgrade in the next year. From the start, before any equipment was moved in, it was apparent just by listening to people talk that this room was special. One of the biggest pluses is being able to listen at any volume at any time of night and not disturbing the rest of the family. One can barely hear the system played even at high levels in adjoining parts of the basement, let alone the rest of the building. To me this is an outstanding feature!
    Layout: The speakers sit about 7' from the back wall. I sit about 13' from the speakers. There is about 4 feet behind my chair including the book shelves.
    Room dimensions: 24'x 13.5'x 6'10
    • Levinson No 31.5
    The 31.5 might be the pinnacle in Redbook transport design. It is firmly in the top 5. My unit has recently been rebuilt at HSG and provided with a all new transport and lazer assembly.
    • Levinson No-360s
    The 360s may be my ultimate DAC. It was a big upgraded from using the DAC in the #39. Replacing the power cord with a Synergisitc Research unit made a big difference. I would like to hear a #30.6 someday.
    • Levinson No 32
    I upgraded from a #380s. What a difference. It may lack the warmth in the midrange that a tube preamp provides, but more than makes up for it in dynamics and impact. Someday I intend to obtain the phono modules for it.
    • Levinson No-436 X 4 Vertically Biamped
    I replaced my ML#336 with a pair of these. They have better impact in the bass, imaging, and transparency. I recently had the opportunity to biamp my Revel Salons with another pair of these and they really made my speakers come alive. I've now purchased my second pair of 436 amps. Review to come.
    • Revel Ultima Salon
    I upgraded from the Studios to the Salons, and for a while I thought I'd made a mistake. They have been a frustrating speaker to get right. There has been much written about the Salons, both good and bad. It has been a struggle to get these babies to really sound their best. They like lots of power, biamping with 4 436 monoblocks has been the ultimate match so far. If you provide these babies with what they want, they will satisfy. Placement and source are critical. My pair if finished in Oak and Gloss Black.
    • Revel Ultima Sub 30
    I've added a pair of these babies to my system, so now it is triamped. It is much easier to place one sub than two, but once the setup is complete 2 is much better than one. By adding the subs I was able to treat my Salons as satellites and move them around to get the best imaging and midrange clarity. While the Salons were never anemic I feel I now have the authority and slam of the big boys in bass, plus with biamping the midrange and hi-frequencies have really become special.
    The new Sub 30 powered subwoofer combines prodigious very low-frequency reproduction with unparalleled in-room response capabilities. Featuring a massive 15-inch inverted dual-layer metal dome active driver and an auxiliary 15-inch inverted dual-layer metal dome acoustic radiator, the Sub 30 can deliver truly spectacular and detailed deep bass, reaching to well below the limits of human low-frequency hearing, along with the ability to deliver room-shaking sound at astonishing sound pressure levels — all with low distortion. The state-ofthe-art active driver is equipped with a sophisticated magnetic motor system that provides ultra-low distortion, obviating the need for servo control, and has an incredible 3 inches of peak-to-peak excursion capability. The built-in power amplifier boasts a phenomenal 1,000 watts of output power, with a peak reserve capability of 1,400 watts.

    http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/product-overview.asp?ID=13
    • Sota Deluxe Sapphire
    My Sota has been upgraded with the acrylic matt and reflex clamp. It still sounds great. I need to upgrade the cartridge and would like to send it to SOTA for tweaking.
    • Sumiko FT-3
    This arm is equipped with the VTA adjuster. I don't know how it compares with today's arms, and I probably won't replace it.
    • Audioquest 403b
    This is a low output moving coil that held its own with the best when I orginally purchased it. I'm hoping to upgrade to the Denon 103r.
    • Acoustat Transnova Preamp
    This was my orginal preamp. I've always enjoyed its sound, especially the phono system, so I now use it as my phono preamp, and then send the signal to my #32.
    • Synergistic Research Resolution Reference X2
    I use three balanced pairs of this cable to connect the #32 to the #360s DAC. I also use Resolution Reference between amps and preamp and from the preamp to the Sub 30s through the crossover and back to the high frequency pair of 436s. This cable features pinpoint imaging and the sound is very round and full as compared to the Kaleidescope II. The bass has a much higher detail and appears to go an octave lower than the Kaleidescope II.
    • Synergistic Research Signature 10 Active
    I use 4 4'sections with active shielding to biwire and biamp my Salons.
    • Synergistic Research Resolution Reference X Active
    I use this PC to connect my 360s to the AC with a direct line.
    • Synergistic Research Reference Master Coupler X Active
    I use this cable to connect my 31.5 to a direct line.
    • Synergistic Research AC Master Coupler X Series
    I use this cable to connect my #32 with a direct line.
    • Synergistic Research AC Master Coupler Classic
    I use six of these cords, 2 for my Revel Sub 30s and 4 for my 4 436 amplifiers to the direct line balanced 30 amp circuits.
    • Synergistic Research Digital Corridor Reference
    I use this as an alternate cable to connect the #31.5 to the #360s
    • Transparent Reference Digital
    This is the digital cable I use 99% of the time.
    • Solid Steel Two 5.4 Black Equipment Stands
    These Italian made stands available from Music Direct look great and sound as well. I've placed two stands side by side so they look like a lowboy. Their sound easily rivals stuff from Sound Anchors or Billy Bags.
    • Solid Steel 5.2 Black Amp Stands
    Italian, made equipment racks. Built in Duraluminum cones for each shelf. A much better arrangement to house my 436 amps.
    • Vibrapods Models 1-5.
    I use these tweaks throughout my system. I use the Vibrapod sandwich with three eighths plate glass. I've compared this combo with Audiopoints, BDR cones and pucks, and the Mapleshade cones. Nothing has beat the Vibrapods yet. To get the most from these you have to custom tune each layout by ear using a variety of Vibrapods under each component for the best sound.
    • Vibrapod Vibracones
    Another audiophile friend and I have used Vibrapods and Vibracones for several years now with outstanding results. We've found that: 1. Make sure to experiment with different values other than quoted in the manual under your components. 2. The Vibrapod/cone combo sounds better than just the pods. 3. The Vibrapod/cone combo sounds best when making a vibrapod/cone sandwich using a piece of heavy glass (at least 3/8 or thicker) to set your components on. Go to Vibrapod.com for a description of the sandwich. 4. Vibracones sound best with our equipment (Krell, Levinson, Gryphon, Theta, Acoustat, Legacy) with the point (bearing pointing) to the component. 5. For optimum performance, place a Vibracone directly under the feet of your components, if possible beneath the screw that holds the foot to the chassis. Next, we use the piece of plate glass at least 3/8 thick (or use two pieces, it will be cheaper than 1/2 inch and sound better.)Support the glass with Vibrapod/cones in the correct configuration with points up. 6. Tune the cones/pods by ear, the factory recommendations are good, but be ready to experiment. In our systems it is easy to hear substitutions of #3 vs. #4 or #5 pods in the system. In general I like to use the minimum, one pod/cone on each corner if possible. Heavy amps will need more. 7. Tuning and placement is a pain, but I wouldn't be without them in my system. 8. I find the pod/cones deepen and round the bass, sharpen the image, while adding depth and liquidity to the system when they are tuned correctly. However, they can and do cause many of the concerns as noted above if not used correctly. 9. I've heard many misgivings concerning the use of plate glass as shelving, and having used cones with the glass before, I agree, but Vibrapods/cones work well with glass shelves but perhaps the stickiness of the cones/pods prevents the ringing that I've heard with glass using other supports. I'm not claiming that the Vibrapod/cones are the best isolation system, as I've not ever tried many of the systems mentioned above, but I do like them in my system better than many of the brass cone products I've tried. However like anything in audio, the results are system and system tuner dependent. For more info go to Vibrapod.com
    • Auralex Metro Diffusors
    These diffusors are incredible. I use them on the ceilings and sidewalls. They make my room sound much larger and taller than it actually it. They are an incredible buy and look cool too. Price is for 12.
    • Auralex LENRD Bass Traps
    These bass traps made a huge differnce the bass in my room. With each addition the bass becomes stronger and more defined. They are easy to place and use. I used 48 pieces.
    • Auralex Corner Fill Cubes
    These also absorb the bass. They are placed in the corners and the LENRDs but against them making a clean design. I used 6.
    • Auralex 2
    Mine are blue. I use 4 sheets overlapping and turned to make the diamond shape behind my speakers.
    • Argent Room Lens
    A sound investment. It is amazing how moving these things just a little bit can snap your system into focus. I built 3 new room lenses and added them two my system. They made a great improvement.
    • Home Made Room Lenses
    I have add three more room lenses to my system. A followed plans I've found in the internet and audiogon posts. I now use one pair behind the speakers, and two pair off to the side of each speaker. They were fun to make and look and sound great.
    • Home Depot Wool Rugs
    I use two of these 4' x 8'wool rugs in front of the speakers to absorb and diffuse the floor/ceiling reflection points.
    • Sam's Wholesale Oak Shelves
    I use these shelves behind the listen chair to provide storage, diffusion, and absorption.
    • Nitty Gritty Digital Disc Cleaner
    This is the long discontinued motorized version. It really can polish a disc. Its too bad that these are no longer being made, they work wonders with a CD.
    • Audioprism Quietlines
    I use about 6 of these units throughout the house to take the nasty stuff out of the lines that appliances add.
    • Electrical Power 18 Dedicated Lines
    Power is a huge factor in getting the most from your components, so I wired the room with 18 dedicated 10 guage lines. I separated each outlet into two distint lines. I will be replacing the hospital grade outlets with more exoctic units when I have time to check into these.
    • Post Cereal Raisen Men Players
    These guys strut their stuff when the systems warmed up and on a roll.
    • Cable Elevators Hand Built
    This is a tweak that you have to do! Vocalists and instruments just pop from velvety blackness. I made the platforms from MFD purchased at Home Depot and collected antique glass insulators in blue and green to mount on top of the platforms. The cables are secured by rubberbands. I built 22 in all.
    • Audio Ideas Guide Imagers II
    This tweak, designed by Andrew Marshall, are oval neoprene rings designed to fit around your speakers' tweeters. They work as advertised: They'll deepen the soundstage and control side-wall reflections while also eliminating baffle diffraction. After listening to my Salons with/without the rings, I was very impressed. Imaging from side to side and front to back became pinpoint in accuracy, depth was increased, and the Salons just became much more relaxed and musical. I'd bet they would improve most speaker systems, especially if you have a narrow room and your speakers interact with the side walls. To order: http://www.audio-ideas.com/tweaks.html

Comments 62


Sgr,

This is truly one of the best systems on Audiogon. You've obviously put a lot of thought into the system. FOUR Levinson 436?!?! I bet those power amps keep your Revel Ultima Salons happy. How do you like your new twin Revel Ultima Sub30s? I know the Salons have a very deep bass output, can you tell a big difference with and without the subs?

Also, I've noticed you like Auralex treatments. You should try their GRAMMA Isolation pads under your speakers and subwoofers. They made a big difference under my Velodyne DD15 subwoofer.

From the pictures, it looks like the room is a dedicated music room. How about a nice TV or a projector? With just couple more components, you can make that room into an unbelievable theater!

Happy listening!

spacekadet

Owner
I haven't had a chance to update the pictures lately. I'll try doing so this week.

sgr


Very nice system. Where are you hiding your Ultima Sub30s?

spacekadet

Owner
I do have a small (300 albums) vinyl collection featuring classics from Sheffield Labs, Mobile Fidelity, Bob Fulton, and variouos rock imports. My playback system features an older SOTA turntable, Sumiko MMT arm, and Audioquest 404b cartridge. I'm usually just too lazy to mess with the records. I do have plans to update cartridges (I'm thinking of the Sumiko Blackbird) and also buying the Levinson phono stage for my #32. I do believe the sound of vinyl (especially the high frequencies)is special. I've not experimeted much with SACD or DVD-A but it sounds if these are going the way of BETAMAX much to my regret. Audiophiles need a format which provides the playback technology of the day. The new blue lazer sytems sound the most promising so I'll probably wait to upgrade if and when this becomes available, although they probably won't play CD Redbook, so I'll still keep my classic 31.5 and 360s!

sgr

Seems like a waste of a good system w/o a vinyl front end in sight. Now THAT would be your best upgrade.

Oz

ozzy62

Owner
System edited: I added several new tweaks and additions including home made Cable Elevators and more pictures! Remember the Raisen Men?

sgr

Fantastic system...

My only suggestion would be to get a leather chair with a lower "back". Unless you are really tall and your head sits above the back of the chair.

I notice great differences with chairs that do not block/absorb/rebound the signal coming towards my face.

Just my two cents. Otherwise, quite nice.

-George

ajazi

Greetings SGR,

Awesome system!!! How do you like the metrofusors? Any experience with the T-Fusors? Like you, I have been trying to acheive a delicate balance between absorption and diffusion. I am using the T-fusors on the sidewalls and behind the listening position. I am in the process of doing treatment on the ceiling. I have minifusors that I will alternate with 12 inch auralex foam in a checkered pattern and I am thinking of putting T-Fusors on the first ceiling reflection points. I purchased the Silclear, Mikrosmooth and Optix Cd treatment from Mapleshade and I am optimistic on the improvements these tweaks will make. It is just phenomenal to experience a properly treated room and the large improvement it makes to one's system.

Have fun and congratulations on your great set up.

Best regards!

peepoy2

Owner
System edited: Just added a new Tweak. Sil-Clear! This stuff is one of the best tweaks I've tried. The clarity, smoothness, and micro dynamic changes I hear appear to be on the order of a component change. It is available through Maple Shade and other vendors and consists of a non-toxic paste made of microscopic silver particles that you coat all male electrical connections with including RCA single ended, balanced, power cord connectors, and digital connections. It really made a difference on my power amps which is where I started.

sgr

Owner
System edited: I just replaced the Sound Anchor amp stands with two Solid Steel 5.2 stands. This provides a shelf for each amp,which isolates the amps phyisically and improved the sonics remarkably in these areas: better bass, cleaner sound, more resolution, less strain. These Italian made stands may be the best buy in equipment stands. The stands can be filled with the material of your choosing, and are built with spikes on the feet, along with 3 Duraluminum cones per shelf, with predrilled places for the tops and points of the cones to fit into. I'm now able to make Vibrapod Sandwhiches for each amp using 4 #5s in front, and two #2s in back. All Vibrapods are fitted with Vibracones. If you use the pods, get the cones you'll be astounded at the improvements you'll hear.

sgr

Thanks for your response, Sgr. I can see how much effort you have put into your system (room, tweaks, power, etc.). The Revels, being very neutral, are one of the few cone speakers I might also consider in years to come if I ever tire of planars.

calanctus

Owner
I really do like the sound of panel speakers. I started with a used pair of Dalhquist DQ 10s and enjoyed the open sound and imaging they had. Then I purchased a pair of Acoustat 2+2s, they have always been one of my favorites and were virtually bullet proof. Next was a pair of Maggie MG-IIIs which I biamped. These were great speakers with more transparancy, but not as bullet proof as Acoustats. I bought all these while working for a dealer. About 15 years later, I purchased a pair of Maggie 3.6s. A great speaker, but frustrating. The tweeters and fuses were always blowing which was very puzzleing as was using the same electronics as the older MGIIIs.
I wanted a speaker system that was trasnparent and open like the panel speakers, but could play dynamics without a problem and have low bass capablity. I was back into high end audio and was looking for a speaker that sounded great and was dependable.
When I heard the Salons, I thought all this was possible. Because of their rear tweeter they have many of the characteristics of panel speakers, yet also have the bass, dynamics, and the transient capablities the Maggies lacked.
However it has been a long struggle to get this sound from the Salons, but is now worth all the effort.
I've auditioned the Martin Logans and some of the other hybrid electrostatics/dynamic systems, and the bass never seems to mesh with the panels. They just sound funny to me. I believe the Apogees might have been the ultimate speaker, but they are out of business.

sgr

SGR, you moved from panel speakers (Magnepan) to cone speakers. What motivated this change (most panel owners tend to stick with them)? Do you find any tradeoff in transparency versus dynamics?

I've preferred the sound of panel speakers over most cone speakers I've heard, but I've never had an extended listen to a system at the level of yours.

calanctus

Owner
System edited: Finally a photo update of my system. Enjoy. Let me know if you have suggestions!

sgr

Owner
Thanks for the suggestion Kuzibri I have moved the speakers in as you suggested several months ago, and wow what a differnece it did make. I need to supply new photos as many things have changed for better in my listening room. I don't have a digital camera of my own and a friend took the pictures while we were moveing them around the room so the next time he comes over I'll take care of that!

sgr

Very, very nice system. I also would like to suggest to move the speakers a foot or so more away from the sidewalls. I personally know that the Salons like the space around them, regards

kuzibri

Owner
System edited: Today, I'm trying to update the changes in my system. This summer I constructed a trio of Room Lenses. These are fairly easy to make, and if you have Room Lenses the addition of the extra three is very worthwhile. I've been experimenting with the setup and have arrived at this setup. Two behind my equipment racks, which are on the back wall behind the speakers, and two pair placed symetrically slightly to the front and on either side of the speakers.

sgr

Owner
System edited: I just add Vibrapods to my system. These things are well worth the money if you're using Vibrapods.

sgr

I'll say it again! Love the setup Sgr and the thought and design that went into the room is first rate. Putting the last coat of sealer-primer on my new dry-wall today...systems been down for a while with new carpet still three weeks away.

Dave

sogood51

Owner
System edited: Sorry the 436 followups start the same, but there are many new changes to my system, so go ahead and read the above posting.

sgr

Owner
System edited: This May, I added another pair of Levinson 436 amps to my system. I had tried this before and new it would bring my Salons to the next level. I have now fully integrated the amps into my system by stacking on top of the first pair of 436s. I hope to buy custom stands for them from Sound Anchors eventually. The sound I now enjoy is incredible. While the Salons always sounded good, they never exhibited the Slam that I thought they should be capable of. That all changes when you provide these babies with enough power. The sense of power and dynamics is apparent from the start. While listening to familiar CDs one can become quite startled by unexpected transients. I hear info on CDs that I was never aware of before. Those who have been critical of the Revel/Levinson sound have probably never heard what these components can sound like. I believe that many listeners never get the most from their system because they constantly are trying new equipment and not working to get the best from the equipment they own. Each time I think I've got the most from my system, I learn about some new tweak, experiment, or build things like my new room lenes and my system just gets better. It is easy to get wrapped up in the component of the month, but quite challenging to get the most from your system no matter the manufacturer. This Summer 2004 I added 3 more Room Lenes which I built myself. They greatly enhanced the sound, which provided more pinpoint imaging, and much better bass. I also finalized the location of my Auralex diffusors on the ceiling directly above my components and along the side walls. I also replaced the CWD oak stand and the Billy Bags stand with two Solidsteel 5.4 stands in black. They are placed side by side but not touching and appear to be one lowboy stand. They greatly enhanced the imaging, solidity of bass, improved the looks asthetically, and brought more focus to my system. One other improvement I recenly made was replacing the Synergistic Research Kaliedescope II cable bewteen the amp and premp with 1.5 meter runs of Synergistic Resolution Reference. I'll be adding new pictures soon.

sgr

Wow -- great addition. Looking forward to hearing your comments about the sound.

rsbeck

Owner
System edited: I have added a second pair of 436 monoblocks in a vertically biamped configuration.

sgr

WOW,,great system and room

raytheprinter

Congrats again on your system and room -- sounds like you've got it dialed in real nice.

rsbeck

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