Um...my phono pre is on the Bryston Preamp- I hear it is very good quality. Hammond transformers from britian, good caps etc... I have yet to listen to my new copy of Donovan, but i have tried some newer records with sucess. I bought a "last" stylus cleaner and record cleaner. I will buy a record cleaning brush when i make my record cleaning machine (need direct drive turntabe for machine)
I have also concluded as you did, it is most likely the wear on the records.
thanks

philoman2 May 15, 2006 02:26

I bought an old Who record for $2. as a test record recently - and sure enough, grainy, at least with the Grado - does the same thing with some monos. So probably some sort of groove anomaly. I think it's wear on the records. I personally think whoever wrote the article on Wiki (don't believe everything you read on the internet - I've seen some doozys on Wiki) is overstating it a bit. Have you tried out any new vinyl? What's your phonostage? Personally I think isopropyl is fine, but a simple carbon fibre brush works best for me. I also use the Decca.

biomimetic May 13, 2006 20:08

System edited: Updated Pictures to include the turntable. Enjoy :) Please post on any suggestions.

philoman2 May 12, 2006 22:34

Add a turntable, it will take you on an amazing musical learning experience.

weiserb May 11, 2006 01:19

When you heard the Wilson/BAT combo was the BAT gear tube or SS? Im curious about how their tube amps sound. Thanks

jlind325is May 10, 2006 19:10

I don't presently have a digital camera, but here are the plans I went by when I did mine. Mine is much more crude and simple. I used an old yardsale turntable, bought a $20 1HP Shopvac from WalMart, plugged up the end of the crevice tool, cut a slit for suction along the crevice tool, lined each side of slit with self adhesive felt (86 cents for 8x11 sheet at WM). See the link for more info on the crevice tool mods. Mine looks like crap, but it works well and does it's job, which is to suck the dirty fluids off the record.

http://www.grynx.com/index.php/projects/record-cleaning-machine/

I hope this helps. I am on a very small budget, so this worked well for me.

wwwrecords May 09, 2006 17:48

Yes, I would also like some pictures. see what im in for. It give me a good weekend project. thanks for the help.

philoman2 May 09, 2006 13:40

Please keep in mind i am new with vinyl as well. therefore i dont have any recommendations on cleaning fluid, sorry.The reason i went with the expensive Zerodust stylus cleaner is that i felt i could to the least harm to anything by just dipping the tip of the stylus in a gel and it seems to do a good job of cleaning.

Wwwrecords- Thanks for the recommendation for the DIY record cleaning machine. Would it be possible to see some pictures of yours?

jlind325is May 09, 2006 02:10

I recommend not messing around with homebrew fluids and go ahead and buy some RRL (Record Research Labs) fluid. It is the only cleaner that I am aware of that doesn't require rinsing. You will actually need 2 brushes, one for wet cleaning and one to remove any dust before each play. I also recommend you begin looking at Record Cleaning Machines. If you do a google search for DIY RCM you will find how to easily build one for about $30. That is what I did and it works great. At some point you may want to buy a factory made one, but for now you can get by easily with a DIY. DIY= Do It Yourself. The whole purpose of a RCM is once you loosen the dirt and crud with the fluids and brush, it will suck the suspended dirty fluids off the record.

As far as a stylus cleaner, check out member dougdeacon Mr.Clean Magic Eraser stylus cleaner. A $2 investment will give you enough to clean your stylus for 20 years. A search should provide the info. If not, let me know and I will help find it.

Everything I have mentioned above should run you about $100 including building your own record cleaning machine. Then you will be set to do it just like the big guns.

wwwrecords May 09, 2006 01:19

I'll try to go to audio consultants this week and get an audioquest record brush and some liquid record cleaner. I talked to a guy who owns a vinyl shop and he said to use 85%+ Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) to clean the records- do you suggest this. I was seriously considering this becuase the guy actually works at the vinyl shop. could i just use a specially made brush for the stylus, or do you suggest liquid.
thanks

philoman2 May 08, 2006 20:14

do you have a record brush or stylus cleaner? You should pick those up, improve you sound and slow the wear on your brand new stylus. i like my "Decca" brush and i opted for the Zerodust stylus cleaner.

jlind325is May 08, 2006 18:46

Is it normal for the highs to be grainy with the Grado gold listening to Peter, Paul and Mary or Jefferson Airplane? I was looking on wikipedia and it says the RIAA says normal wear and tare of the record brings the high frequency response goes down after each play.
like 1 play 20Khz, 18Khz after 3 plays, 16Khz after 8 plays etc...
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_record) see frequency response and noise.
Could this be a reason for grainyness? I also bought the records used.

Overall im happy

Thank you all for your responses.

philoman2 May 08, 2006 13:45

I agree - better to spend the money on records, assuming you like the sound. Then worrying about a nice rig. Grado gold is a good choice for starters - it sounds exciting and smooth.

biomimetic May 08, 2006 06:34

Sounds like you did good to me. You being satified and happy with your system is the main thing. Vinyl is alot more hands on that digital, but it is alot more fun and rewarding. To me anyways. Now you can focus on building your vinyl collection. If you haven't done so yet, you need to do some looking on how to clean your vinyl purchases and cleaning your stylus. Both will be important to your continued enjoyment.

wwwrecords May 08, 2006 01:55

I was downtown yesterday, near Belmont and decided to go stereo shopping. I went to Saturday Audio Exchange, decided to by a Grado Gold cartridge- it was lower end only about 120 dollars. I had the guy there setup the tonearm, and have it blanaced properly. Bought some 33's, re-balanced my tonearm. I am very happy with the sound.
I should have waited to hear your guys input. It was sort of impulsive.
I'll try some tweaks, but i am elated right now.

Thank you everyone for getting my into vinyl.
-Now I just need a larger collection of LPs

Cheers

philoman2 May 08, 2006 01:39

I agree - good vintage tt - I would also recommend putting a couple of racket or tennis balls under it. Some weight in the plinth would probably improve the sound as well.

biomimetic May 07, 2006 06:01

If you phono stage can handle a low output MC cart, the Denon 103 is a good choice. If your phono is for a MM cart, I would suggest a Denon 110 or 160. The 103 can be had new for $150, 110 for $120 and 160 for about $140 or so.

The Dual 701 is one of the finest tables Dual made. Your current cartridge sounds like a Shure Type III with a Hyper Elliptical stylus. If you are unsure of it's condition and wear, you would do well to get a cart that will not damage your Lp's. If you are unsure how to properly setup a cartridge, you will need to seek some help. No need getting a new cartridge, not setting it up correctly and not getting its best. Not to mention causing excessive wear to both vinyl and stylus.

wwwrecords May 06, 2006 21:41

Denon 103, Grado Red, Sumiko Blue Point Special, Ortofon RM20 super.

biomimetic May 06, 2006 06:29

I got some information on the Dual record player and the Sure cartridge. ok Dual 701, and Shure VN35HE. I dont know how old these are but im guessing around late 60's?? I decided to change where my components were so i could fit the record player. I was listening to some Jim Croce- what a differnt sound compared to what I first thought. I am guessing that the sound is better because i lifted it off the floor, and set the anti-skating properly, etc. Now there is very little noise. I am very happy with the improvements. I am thinking about just buying a new cartridge, instead of an entire new system. Any sugesstions on a cart. around 100-200 dollars?

philoman2 May 06, 2006 00:20

There are definitely plenty of good stores in the Chicago area - after you find out how good it can be, which you will, I would go listen to several different decks and carts, which should give you a flavor. Plus there's plenty of good just window browsing/research to be had on toddthevinyljunkie.com and needledoctor.com besides here on 'gon. Vinyl should not be either fuzzy or laid back when it's really good - it should sound fuller and clearer actually. Like I said buy a vinyl copy of something you like, and bring the CD - my bet is the more diverse the range you listen to at the store - often they only have classic albums be it the tried and true "Dark Side of the Moon", random Mozart or Brubeck's "Take Five" - the more sense of it you will get. If you take some of your parents vinyl, I also might make sure they take a serious brush to it before you make any decisions. The caveats are of course that vinyl can get scratched and worn eventually - but on a nice table it shouldn't, but if your parents just have an old Dual, cart unknown, who knows what shape the collection is in. Plus, turntables really have improved alot in the past 20 years, since the days of the hi-end Linn, when that Dual was considered mid-market.

biomimetic May 03, 2006 20:39

Philoman2, vinyl is alot more hands on than CD, but I find the rewards well worth the effort. And my turntable is pretty meager by Agon standards. Analog is something that you should give a good listen and compare to digital and make up your mind. You have a very nice system by the way. Awesome for someone of your years.

wwwrecords May 03, 2006 02:47

I think i have been brought over to the "vinyl" side. Your anaylsis seems to be steller when it comes to vinyl. I think i just have had bad experiences with vinyl. My parents have an old Dual (model unknown) with a Sure cartridge (Model Unknown) whenever i listened to 33's on it, they were fuzzy, didnt have much depth in the soundstage, and almost not listenable. The reasons why i believe i had this bad experince were: Improper setup of turntable, mistreatment of records (not putting them back into the sleeves, a poor quality phono preamp (onboard reciever), and finally not proper cleaning of components.
Perhaps i should first give it a listen at my local store (Audio Consultants- Evanston IL) (www.audioconsultants.com)
I know that they have great staff, i just really never asked about vinyl.
thank you all for your insight.

philoman2 May 02, 2006 13:25

I cast yet another vote for going vinyl. If nothing else, vinyl can be a nice way of building a collection of recordings on the cheap.

jc2000 May 02, 2006 01:59

You could build a very nice vinyl rig for the price of an Ayre - I am disappointed to hear a salesperson tell you to get in at the bottom end; I have to wonder if they think they can sell you a top end model in 6 months when you still aren't satisfied, and secretly know you could get more out of your system with vinyl but work in a store where maybe it would be uncool to say it...

Part of the fun of vinyl is unwrapping a new record - for instance I'm listening to the new Yeah Yeah Yeah's on 150g right now, and it's as quiet as a CD. Different gram weights and colors; the special quality of different pressings makes the music more special. Don't start with a Project. It will under-sell the rest of your system - good as I think the Projects are, your system begs for more. Estate sales, Goodwill, etc. are good places if you're into classic rock, folk, classical, and maybe you live somewhere that good vinyl stores aren't as accessible; but there's still all the great indie and underground online shops, plus music direct, etc.

I think you will be surprised by how much more your system is capable of. I have always been a fan of Arcam - and debated for 6 months about getting a used CD23 vs. a CD33 and finally just bit the bullet and went back to vinyl when I got to hear a VPI table/Benz L2 cartridge/Grado preamp, and those two Arcams side by side. I mention VPI because they have a big rocking sound which would go well with the Bryston (they look cool too). Plus, the VPI will kick the crap out of whatever you put next to it that's digital. If you are truly anal, take a digital copy and a vinyl copy of the same thing with you for a listen. I wasn't any more impressed with digital further up the food chain; it's which frequency bandwidths are cut, and how the signal is made to conform to an algorythm. DSD, HD and SACD still aren't analog. As any audio engineer will tell you (I have worked as one) the thing that's great about analog is that the entire signal is present. And I still think a tube pre would add some excitement to that top of the line Bryston amp.

biomimetic April 29, 2006 03:44

I really dont have a large vinyl collection- probably 30 albums- mostly classical. Im thinking once i get a large collection (from estate sales, or used shops) then i will buy a record player (pro-ject, etc) i am excited for adding another level to my system. thanks for the insight

philoman2 April 28, 2006 19:43