"Removing The Dude from my system and from your system posed the same results. So blaming other equipment in the chain (totally different equipment I might add) is not a feasible argument in this situation."

First of all, the end result was not the same obviously as I still own the Dude and you do not. So, the first half of that statement is incorrect. The logic expressed in the second half is not sound (to me).

I have a science and research background. One of the statistical terms thrown around is "confounding variable." A simple definition is a variable in a mathematical equation that potentially influences a given result. You want to say that variable x produces result y, but due to the presence of z, you are not able to make a clear and definitive statement. This logic applies to audio. A system, any system, is a multi-variable equation, and you have to try and decipher what influences what in order to back up your hypothesis, which in this case is "the Prism Orpheus produces superior sonics to the Dude." Another ruthless and ever present confounding variable in audio is "listener bias." We are controlled by our own musical and sonic biases whether we like it or not. Some people like warmth and bloom. Others like see-through and fast, etc, etc. Add to that ego issues, and Audio forums all become fairly tribal fairly quickly with the squabbling that goes on. I am not immune from that. Furthermore, many people use forums as a stealth store front, and so being involved with a product on a sales level is the ultimate confounding variable. At that juncture, things become pea soup, and no one can see straight. All the confounding variables mentioned drive me to strive for blinded listening sessions. That is one easy way to deal with some of these variables. I always try and use my wife and non-audio friends and blind them to the changes in my system.

On another front, the DIY nation is swelling by the day. The economy has hastened this evolution. You are part of that nation Ryan. That is a good thing. Getting good sound on the cheap is swell. classD audio has helped a lot of guys get good sound on the cheap. Your amps use one of the many kits they offer. The same holds true for your speakers. I think that is grand. The only issue I see arising from this trend is when everyone and his brother is making amps and cables and other things as a hobby and then marketing them as some new SOTA product at a fraction of the cost of mainline gear. While that is good in some ways, in other ways its bad as it takes business away from people for whom audio is a living, is how they feed their children, and have spent year after earnest year perfecting their product. Unfortunately, in the internet age, words are cheap, and bold proclamations abound.

I have heard PM. I think it improves Itunes performance, but I am not sure. Another Prism owner said it made no difference whatsoever. Who knows. Clayton Shaw of Spatial computing was playing with tube simulator DSPs as have others. Imagine that. People need a tube sound in their tubeless system. Other end users who have struggled with getting organic sound from their Prisms have also resorted to DSPs. Go figure.

agear August 19, 2010 19:50

"Andrew, to be perfectly fair... we removed the Dude from your system with my Topaz and we both agreed that it sounded considerably more like live music without tubes in your system. But I won't argue with you about your love for tubes... if there was no real reason to love tubes no one would."

You are forgetting one key fact: whether running direct from my source or through the Dude, that particular system had a cheezy piece of pro-gear between the amp and pre-amp that did digital x-over duty and a final, redundant DA conversion. That's a key piece of information wouldn't you say? As Clayton Shaw always said, his Spatial system, which you are currently marketing in more of a DIY version, is not really influenced much by the pre-amp. That is why he stressed getting the Spatial system to remove the pro digital x-over. Also, in retrospect, the Topaz seemed to offer a lot of energy and speed but lacked dimensionality. It was a little plastic sounding and two dimensional. Others who have heard isolation transformation have relayed similar impressions to me. They have their own "sound." What do you know...The Topaz did help since I have not finished my listening room yet and the setup was in an almost unfinished basement with very, very poor wiring. Enough said. I did hundred of hours of A+B testing and included my musician wife at times, and the Dude won hands down. I think we were temporarily bewitched by scrubbing the power a bit with the Topaz obviously.

As far as you Dudeless system sounding better, that's a little sketchy since that was a different system altogether (different speakers, Nuforce amps which you did not like in final analysis (too "noisy", a DIY front end, and Aerial 10Ts you have modded yourself, different wire, etc, etc). The DAC in the Prism is very good and quite a bit better. So, for the sake of logic and clarity, I would toss out those observations. Have a little shootout in LA! The Audio community is very active there and you can do a real shootout. I know there are Dude and TRL owners there. It would be fun and a lot more meaningful than posturing on Audiogon.

As for the Tripoint, how can you even make that statement? You don't own one and have never heard it in your own system.

agear August 16, 2010 19:14

Ryan, you seem to be scrambling the facts a little. The noise I heard in my system was not a ground loop issue. I listen to "live" music about once a week. I presume little of what you hear is unamplified, which makes it less useful as a reference point to be honest. Ryan, its my understand that you just graduated from film school a few months ago. I did not know you had a recording gig during that time period. Please tell us more. As for the Prism, is a solid state pre-amp and multi-channel dac. People who are actual professional recording engineers (the kind who receive Grammy nomination lists) have heard your unit and don't care for it. Another end Prism end user preferred his tube pre-amp. Go figure. You like it, which is swell. That's your personal bias while mine involves tubes, etc. There is no good, scientific, measureable data to justify any of our decisions in audio. Sorry. Furthermore, you cannot make blanket statements about turntables, etc without having had those units in your own home and doing direct A+B with other listeners involved. You are working off sonic memory which is very deceptive (at least for me).

agear August 15, 2010 17:43

My sentiments exactly Clio09. Solid state (transistor) and digital gear both produce idiosyncratic "noise." I experienced a system with 100 dB efficient speakers fed by a Mac Mini, Apogee DAC and digital amps, and there was audible noise when close to the speakers. That is no different than what I have now with my tubed pre-amp and traditional SS amps from TRL.

agear August 14, 2010 18:59

That is what I suspected.

agear August 10, 2010 00:42

Ryan, where did you get that information information about electron behaviour and tubes?

agear August 07, 2010 20:24

Ryan, I am glad your system is progressing. The PS upgrade to the Mini was a grand idea.

As for your theology in distortion and musicality, I am less certain. Solid state entities theoretically create non-linearity in dynamics and transistor "switching noise" that causes, IMO, some people to prefer tubes. A transistor is a switch and a tube is a valve...blah, blah. There is an interesting experiment done in Germany looking at listener fatigue in stereo systems, and blinded subjects (audiophiles and non-audiophiles) preferred the tubed system: http://www.stereophile.com/features/203/

As for Dude vs. digital front end (Prism), it is hard to know which is better. I presume you never had a chance to a side by side comparison. I had the Apogee Duet briefly and was able to compare it to the Dude. The Apogee piece is a tremendous value but compared to the Dude, it lacked body, sound depth and width and overall musicality. My wife briefly came down to listen to it and said made a face and said it sounded "sharp." That being said, the Duet required a dbx digital x-over upstream feed into the Emerald Physics 2.3 speakers I was demoing. The Prism is in another league obviously and you have no cheesy pro audio digital x-over unit in the way. Ironically, Paul Weitzel, head of TRL and the creator of the Dude, has done a lot of recording for Sony and others and has used and heard the Prism, and TC Konnect. He said they are not what he would call musical. He has used the 2 million dollar Euphonix consule that employs the 64-bit ASK chipset. He likes that unit. He also said the Sony Sonoma, which is several rungs down from the Euphonix, blows the Prism away. Obviously, there is pro audio and there is pro audio. The Prism is consider by Paul and others to be more "prosumer." Another interesting facet about the Prism interface and others like it is that people are using DSP tube simulators to plump up the sound. One guy who wrote a review of the Prism/Spatial audio/Emerald Physics system found it ultra stark and clear but fatiguing and was thus farting around with tube simulators (little DSP programs) as a fix. The irony of that is too good to pass by. To each is own. Despite all the flaws and shortcomings of our respective systems, we twiddle away in the name of music and that's fun.

For the record, the Dude does not use tube rectifiers....

agear July 20, 2010 01:51

Ryan, I did not realize you had finished your speakers? Pics please. BTW, I am glad you are having fun fiddling on your audio journey. Keep it up....

agear June 20, 2010 09:19