You all (you know who you are) sound like a bunch of little girls gossiping about the girl who showed up in a prettier dress.

didactically October 31, 2004 18:52

'Me thinks thou all dost protest too much'. What is up with that?

Oh, I know. That is what you do when lacking a credible arguement on an issue. Attack the person. Attempt to destroy their credibility. At least it will serve as a diversion from one's lack of credible argument.

A ancient, popular, and often used strategy. Made all the more evident in the current political campaign.

didactically October 31, 2004 18:33

Fatparrot: Your attemtp to protect Guido from me is sweet. What I cannot figure out is how is that I caused so much damage by holding an alternative view that he needs it.

Do you feel that same way...is that why you are so defensive that you retaliate againd my ideas? as though if you not destroy them they will continue to assault you.

You have to admit its all pretty weird.

Can you explain it?

didactically October 25, 2004 23:27

Sorry, too long... maybe next time.

didactically October 24, 2004 09:08

That said, 'the thing created is inferior to the one who created it'. Or, put an audiophile way, 'the listening non participant is inferior to the muscians creating the music'.

You draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa when you tweak your playback system with some subjectivly preferred sonic distortion or other, regardless of the poetic terms you may describe the experience in.

BTW, do not try so hard to use impressive language in your writing. It only makes it worse, and that tends to make me weep, or chuckle, depending.

Rather, take a look at why you may be trying so hard. That could reveal some truth or other in one's subjective nature. Face that and 'chuckle' it away if you can.

didactically October 23, 2004 18:58

What did the Frued say, 'what you acuse others of you are probably guilty of yourself. Otherwise what you perceive, real or imagined, you would not characterize as a fault'.

No?

I think so.

At any rate, what we say has more to do with us than anything, or anyone, we may be speaking about.

And all that is fairly elementary, but I guess if you do not get it, there is not much you can do with it.

Oh, well.

didactically October 17, 2004 01:57

Perhaps if you were credibile, I could take your opinion seriously.

BTW what was it that Frued said about people who refer to themselves in the third person? 'They have great credibilty, so take seriously what they say.' No? It must have been something else then.

didactically October 17, 2004 01:52

Yea, I am going to change because a stranger, who obviously has other than my best interest at heart, on an intenet forum instructed me to. Isn't that what everyone does.

BTW you inadvertanly acknowledged there is a posse. You just sent them an instructive messasge. Are the chief?

didactically October 16, 2004 00:32

I do not read:

Fatparrot,
Warrenh,
Tireguy,
Evita,
Jrwr7,
or Theaudiotweak
posts.

Nor do I understand why they continue to read mine, only to rail about what I say, or even how I say it. Then read some more, rail some more, accuse me of being redundant, only to read still more (as though they did not know what to expect from my redundancy), rail more...you get the picture.

I do not get it. Though I have found on every Forum I have visited there is always extant a handfull of veteran participants, who form a clique and act like they own the place. Typically to the extent of criticizing personal expression, and even policing content.

Of course you cannot talk to them about it. They just rail at such inferences.

didactically October 13, 2004 17:08

You cannot get to it from there. That is the whole point.

Once you have transparent speakers, appropriately sized for the environment in which they will operate; setup to get the most out of what they have to offer in that space; and powered with a distortion free amp, you will be there.

Not that you will not be able to discern differences with various top end gear, cables, and tweaks, but so will you from whether a window is open or closed, moving a major piece of furniture, or even the degree of humidity if you live in an area where it changes.

I had 8) 24x42 bass traps, and as many 2'x4'x8" wall panels for room treatment, which I have place in a hundred different configurations in conjunction with a pair of PSB Stratus Gold's.

After replacing them with Audio Artistry 'Dvorak' active EQ/XO BiAmp Open Baffle system I continued the room treatment experiment. Even with a ToneBurst CD evaluating the various specific frequencies below 200hz.

Then I took them all out, and gradually back in again in various confiurations. And all out again. Suffice it to say, they have all since been disposed of. It is just as the system designer suggested, 'normal room furnishings is probably all the acoustic treatment you will need'.

And that is with woofers consisting of 2-12" dynamic drivers per woofer, also open baffle, in push-pull configuration ('bass is about moving air').

Unlike enclosed cabinet dynamic driver designs, which radiate in 360 degrees, reaching and exciting any and all of those pesky room modes, open baffle dynamic drivers radiate in a figure 8 pattern, front to back. Off axis at about only 30 degrees.

So, though I have tried even various side wall reflection devices with them, from subtle, to stop everthing, I presently use none.

Its been a couple of years now, and I do not see an upgrade in my future, unless I end up with a significantly larger space. Then larger units, perhaps needing more amplification, may be in order.

The designer is Seigfried Linkwitz, of 'Linkwitz-Riley' fame, the father of Stereophile's 1998 Speaker of the Year, the Audio Artistry 'Beethoven' http://www.audioartistry.com who offers truth in all things audio at his web page http://www.linkwitzlab.com

Check it out. There are even papers on theory by various experts in the field, at the LINKS link.

didactically October 13, 2004 16:56

At this point do you really expect me read such a long post from you?

I am considing reporting you for that business of the mulit posts.

didactically October 13, 2004 00:28

So he 'erupts' again.

No one is trying to make you like what you do not (at least I hope not, 'Seig heil', you know).

Do you want my help with something?

didactically October 12, 2004 21:04

Feel better?

If I may suggest, to keep from having to errupt again, and perhaps again, try considering the various points of view expressed, take what you want, and focus on your own audio cicrcumstances.

And, oh yea, look for what in your life experiecne has made you so angry. I doubt it is posts on the audio forum, if you get my drift.

didactically October 11, 2004 16:31

Tireguy
You will be pleased to know that since a Lexicon DC-2 Controller (Preamp) and its 24bit DA processor has replaced the Adcom Pre in my system now so the Sony SACD player serves only as transport.

The improvement is easily detected through transparent speakers, laboroulsy properly setup, and distortion free amps.

didactically October 11, 2004 07:38

System edited: Edited for Preamp replacement

didactically October 11, 2004 07:18

Your inquiry does not sound very friendly, but here you go:

See: http://www.linkwitzlab.com / Reference earphones / scroll down to: SHURE E2c Earphones for test results and review.

didactically October 11, 2004 06:48

I did not say I could not discern between the $$ so called hi-end cables and those from RadioShack. In fact I said the difference discerned was that the Megacable was a little more real.

The hi-end cables do have sonic characteristics. The mfgrs see to it. And those qualities can be described in poetic terms: especially if one is smitten by them.

It is just that they do not allow the signal through undisturbed. Contrare. And the notion that they somehow improve the original signal is just too absurdly illogical to even discuss.

A more rational expectation for cables is that they affect the signal the least.

Quote:
'Cables can have audible effects and some manufacturers make sure they will, either through unusual electrical parameters and/or by suggestion. Weaknesses in the design of the output-to-input interface are exploited. Sounding different does not mean it is also a more accurate transfer from electrical to acoustic domain.

'I measured the 16 gauge Megacable from Radio Shack (278-1270) that I use. A 10 foot length has 0.07 ohm resistance, 714 pF of capacitance and 1.9 uH of inductance. The line impedance is 51 ohm. A typical tweeter has a voice coil resistance of 4.7 ohm and 50 uH inductance. At 20 kHz this yields an impedance of about |4.7 + j6.3| = 7.9 ohm. Add to this the cable inductance of j0.24 ohm, and 0.07 ohm resistance for 10 feet, and the impedance becomes 8.09 ohm. This causes a 7.9/8.09 = 0.98 or 0.17 dB reduction in tweeter output at 20 kHz which is insignificant. The cable effect is even less at lower frequencies.' www.linkwitzlab.com /Q&A link /Q37 for the complete test results and review.

As for the top end gear, try listening with reference earphones, then compare. Any discernable differences will be too subtle to compete with whether a window is open or closed, the refrigerator is running or not, or even the barametric pressure or humidity (which can be very discernable in Southern Califorina with the hot dry Santana wind off the desert instead of the more usual cool humid breeze from the Pacific Ocean).

Besides, I propose that it is not about discernable differences, but rather priorities. Once an approach has been selected: whether to aspire to 'true to the original' in playback, or to join the psycho-acoustic rampant subjective confusion of the gullible 'connoisseurs of coloration' who choose to 'improve' what they hear with their system. Much like the arrogant, vain, and conceited overmixing engineers do with their room size 1/4 million dollar mixing toy.

Nothing personal, and no offence if you selected the lesser of the two approaches.

didactically October 10, 2004 02:29

I too had succumbed to the top end/cable myth. I traded in over $3000 worth (pre owned market) of cables and fully expected a sonic train wreck when I installed RadioShack Megawire. But all that happened was the system sounded a bit more real.

The 'connoisseurs of coloration' like to play with different qualitites of component distortion, even to the point of mix and match, but it is still just distortion.

When you finally aquire transparent speakers suited to the environment they will operate in, finally get them setup to get the most of what they have to offer out of them, and power them with a distortion free amp, one cable or another, whether the window is open or closed, the heater or refrigerator is running or not, is so subtle that it is hardly worth the trouble, let alone the enormous expenese it can involve.

To make significant progress in 'true to the original' playback listen to the source material with reference earphones (Shur E2 $100, tested and reviewed at www.linkwitzlab.com ) then compare to what you hear in the room through the system.

It can be discouraging, but like Dr Phil says, 'you cannot change what you do not acknowledge'.

That is my story, and I am sticking to it :-)

didactically October 08, 2004 22:05