I checked out the RS Audio Midnight wire, but I couldn't justify (or, for that matter, afford) the expense. It did look interesting though.

Perhaps sometime in the future, I'll be able to test the waters :^)

Best,
Hat

hatfield October 12, 2004 14:14

Hat,
FYI, I improved my Abby speakers by using the Ridge Street Audio Midnight Silver Edition Internal Tweeter & Woofer Hookup Wire. I heard better extension in the highs, mids and lows.

lak October 12, 2004 11:53

Lak,

Thanks for the kudos. I'm still playing around with different resistors to get the ideal integration between the super tweeter and the driver for my ears, but for the most part, the system's dialed in.

I used Cardas 2 x 23.5 AWG shielded cable for hookup wire. It's very easy to work with, and in my experience, very neutral in it's sonic fingerprint.

Hat

hatfield October 11, 2004 15:20

Hatfield,
I really like the set up and components of your system. It’s obvious you put a lot of thought into its presentation. What type of internal wiring are you using for the Fostex speakers and super tweeter?

lak October 10, 2004 07:54

Zaikes... good to hear from ya! Jet-setting around the world again, eh? Well, the drop-by invite is still wide open so feel free to take me up on it anytime.

Thanks for the kudos... I think I've got things about where I want them for now - esp. for the investment; but you know that upgrade/tweak bug can be a bie-yatch!

Hummmm, the CJ/SET comparison... the biggest difference I've noticed is in the dynamics. Knowing what my listening environment consists of, and how low-level listening reigns supreme, you can prolly guess that the CJ never really had the chance to open up and stretch out its legs. The SET set-up (no pun intended) allows me to run the amps hotter and give them proper room to show what they can produce without upsetting the preverbal marital apple cart.

Additionally, I have noticed that the SETs allow you to see deeper into the recording. I notice more subtle details in the music. Room nuances (reverberations, mic placements, etc... all the auditory clues that allow the listener to construct a virtual soundstage) are more defined. Stringed instruments are more true to life... the attack and decay of individual notes are more tangible.

I’d like to think that I’m not imagining the differences (an audio placebo effect), but the differences are actually there. I will tell you that my wife prefers this set-up... she said she thought it sounded more coherent and less directional (in terms of source location). You’ll need to give me your impressions after you’ve had a chance to hear the SET system.

In all fairness, I didn’t have as much time with the CJ/Abby combo as I would have liked. The Abby’s have since broken-in quite a bit, so if I were to do an A/B comparison today, I may hear something different. Who knows…? I can say I will always have a spot in my heart for the CJ Prem11!

hatfield September 22, 2004 12:52

Dude! Sorry not to followup yet on my drop-by threat (we were gone most of August). If it sounds half as nice as it looks you're doing very well for the money - and anyway I see the Professor approves. Curious to know what you heard when powering your new speakers with the old CJ amp vs. your new SET's...

zaikesman September 21, 2004 12:19

Thanks for the info, Hatfield. Sounds like you have spent quite a bit of time getting it right.

The noise issue with the Fi is the last sticking point for me. I've got a little hum now from a PP amp. There's no way for me to audition the Fi, so it would be a leap of faith.

Matthew: Great speaks! I'm looking to build a new house in ~3 years with a "from scratch" listening room. I'm saving coins (literally) with the intent of getting the Double Ben's. I think the DB's and some Fi mono's could be my last change (that's been said before!). I'd love to hear your single's with the Fi. I'm told the singles are much more refined and complete compared to the Abby's.

Cheers

bmedling September 02, 2004 14:37

matthew~
The Fi is a great amp. The more I listen to it - especially since Don brought it to current specs - the more I love it. Actually, I've been using it more than my 45SE lately.

It mates with the Abbys very well... I'd imagine the Ben's would sound equally as refined if not more so.

How do you like the Bens?

hatfield September 02, 2004 11:46

I have a set of single horn bens and was talking to Terry Cain and he recommended the amp you have. What do you think of the FI Amp?

matthewo September 02, 2004 09:07

Been away for bit... sorry for the delay in response.

Jax2~
The two drivers are two Abby applications that Terry produces: the “normal” are the FE166Es and the “nearfield” are the FF165Ks. In my experience, each driver has its own distinct signature, but both are great in their own respect.

I’ve thought about using an L-Pad in-line, but I’ve been playing around with different resistors (in series and in parallel) to fine-tune the integration. I haven’t shelved the L-Pad attenuator yet, but for now I’d like to keep the x-over as simple as possible.

The difference in sound between the 45SE and the Fi X is mainly in the inner detail of the music. The 45SE seems to capture the nuances better than the Fi. Also, I get a slightly better sense of space with the 45SE. However, the Fi (when running with 2A3 drivers) has a little more punch. Somewhat of a more “active” listening experience. Even using 45 drivers, the presentation seems a little more forward. I guess it boils down to this… each amp has its strengths that cater better to different types of music. Having the two amps allows for great versatility! Also, the Fi drives the sub regardless if it’s being used to drive the Abby’s.

Inscrutable~
I’m sure you will be very happy with the Fi/Abby combo. I’d be curious to hear how the Abby’s mate with the Omegas the Decware amps. Enjoy your new system!

Bmedling~
I spoke to Terry about the “Super Abby” as well (prolly three-months ago), but I’m not sure of the current status. As for the mounts, I played around with different configurations, and came up with what is pictured (I’ll have to upload some better photos). The housing cradle is cherry wood and the baffle is hard maple (the baffle would have been cherry as well, but I ran out of scrap). The design is most definitely TC inspired – I based it on the Ben-ES he has on his site. I think more time went into the experimentation than the actual finished product.

Placement was again, done by experimenting with what sounded best and provided the most seamless integration. I tried several different positions (side firing, rear firing, offset placement, etc.) and found aligning the magnet of the T90’s with the main drivers and facing them forward offered the best option (for my ears). I couldn’t tell you how they would measure (in fact, I would bet that their measurements would look terrible), but I think they sound great. [BTW, if anyone in the Washington DC metro is reading this and has access to audio measurement gear, please drop me a line]

As for the noise level with the Fi, my initial experience proved it to be a noisy unit (more so using the 2A3 drivers); however, recently having it overhauled by Don Garber and brought to current specs, it’s very quiet. I can’t say it’s dead quiet, but you need to place your ear right next to the driver in order to hear any noise. The modifications/revisions were well worth their expense.

hatfield August 31, 2004 16:07

Hello,

I have Abby's as well. I've been looking in to adding the T90A. I know that a year or so ago, Terry was talking of producing the Abby's with this addition calling them "Super Abby's". Did you source the mountings from Terry or produce them yourself? Could you advise on your positioning and mounting?

Also, I'm about the pull the trigger on the Fi-X myself. I have used PP EL34 and KT88 to this point. I had a Welborne Moondog 2A3 on loan from a friend several months back. I've heard reports that the Fi is somewhat noisy. What has been your experience?

Cheers!

bmedling August 30, 2004 13:27

Hat,

What was the Buffett song about 'different source, parallel course' ... or something like that?

I'll be moving away from my low-eff/hi-power system, and I'm starting to compare hi-eff systems (in preparation for a house downsizing). I have a pair of Abby's and a Fi-X integrated on the way. Also have a pair of Omegas and a Decware triode on the way as well, for a lower cost comparison. I can't even SEE my table saw right now, let alone GET to it, so DIY unfortunately isn't a current viable option. I'm kicking myself that I didn't track an auction more carefully and I missed a Korneff that went very low. Nonetheless, I talked with Terry Cain, and he said in my price range that the Fi-X was hands-down the best match for the Abby's. Sounds like you concur. I'm looking forward to the experience!

inscrutable August 28, 2004 04:14

Nice way to pop your SET cherry Hatfield! I've always wanted to hear
Terry's speakers, especially since he's so close to me (about 4 hours
drive). So do the two driver's you have correspond to his
"Nearfield" and "Normal" application of the Abby?
With the FT90 tweeter, I don't know if you're already doing this, but you
may want to try to put an L-pad in-line to blend it in more seamlessly
with the Abbys. I haven't heard the Abby's, but for dynamics with low
power amplification my old LaScala's do a wonderful job. May be
counterproductive to your goals with a new baby and softer listening
though. How do you find the differences between the Fi-X and the
Korneff, and why are you keeping both amplification sources?

...very nice job!

Marco

jax2 August 26, 2004 10:07

Bemopti-
Funny you mention the "full range upgrade bug." I've been playing around with a pair of Fostex T90A horn-loaded super tweeters. I was looking to capture a little more upper-end extension and these offer it in spades. I don't know if it'll be a permanent addition to my system, but for now, they're fun to experiment with.

Gonglee-
A back loaded horn sounds like a plan! Good luck with the project… it should be a lot of fun. BTW, Madisound sells a pretty nice prefabricated folded horn box (BK-16… looks to be very similar to the Medallion in design), which will house a 6.5” driver. The cost is relatively low (about $200 for a pair) and may be an option if you do not have a design in mind.

As for CD vs. vinyl, I listen to both equally. I can’t really say that one sounds better than the other through the Fostex drivers. There are some records I have that sound plain 'ol bad. They may not have been mastered very well, and their playback suffers. There are also records that I have that will blow any CD I own out of the water. So, in my experience, I think it all boils down to the source material. As they say, “garbage in, garbage out.”

Using SS amplification to power Fostex drivers is, IMO, more a matter of preference and needs. For example, I’ve used different types of tube amps (SET, Push-Pull, low-power, high power, etc) and all had their own unique fingerprint. Some I enjoyed, some I didn’t. What I find pleasing may not be the same for you. I’m somewhat biased toward tubes, but that’s not to say SS wouldn’t do them justice. Rather than purchase a new amp along with the loudspeakers, why not try them out with your Marantz receiver. You will be familiar with how the amp sounds and most likely be able to hear the sonic characteristics of Fostex drivers better than if you were listening to them through a new/unfamiliar amp.

Whichever way you go, enjoy it and have fun.

Hat

hatfield August 10, 2004 14:51

Thanks Hart,

I am gonna try Fe164e in a backloaded horn.
Do you listen to vynil, or cds?
Some say that Fostex is better suited to vynil...
Is that true that they don't sound good on CD material?
I was gonna drive them with an old Marantz SS 2270 receiver?
Not a good match?
Should I use a tube amp?

gonglee3 August 10, 2004 04:32

Congratulations on a very nicely rounded system...but I wonder when the SET full range upgrade bug will hit. After all, there are those in the Monster SS amplifiers with dupper inefficient speakers to drive and those with mighty punny SET tubed amplifiers with massive horn loaded speakers. Regardless, I love to see one more Goner who is into SETs.

bemopti123 August 05, 2004 20:55

gonglee3-

i did some side-by-side comparisons to the C&C Abby's before i sold my N805's. although i couldn't really test the 805's with 45se amp (not enough power to drive them with any kind of volume/dynamics), i did run both speakers with a CJ Premier 11a (70wpc).

i felt the 805s paired with a more powerful amp driving them bested the Abbys. however, the Abbys paired with a low-powered SET (i used a Fi X and the 45se when comparing the two speakers), were better suited to my listening environment and tastes.

the Abbys threw a larger, more transparent soundstage with massive depth. the 805s may have been a little more detailed (only by a slight margin), but i felt as if i was focusing more on the system and not on the music when listening to the 805s. with the single-drivers, i was enjoying the music more... yes, very cliché when speaking about SET systems, but also very true in my experience.

as for the speakers being the weak link in the system, i'm sure i could improve upon them (Lowther drivers, Oris horns, Avant-garde horns, etc.) but they have a wonderful synergy with my amp and are just efficient enough to satisfy me without pissing off my wife. sometime down the line i may “upgrade” to another speaker… who knows. For now, I’ve very happy with ‘em!

depending on what type of amplification you are planning to use with the Fostex drivers, they have a relatively low out-of-pocket cost (about $120 for a pair of FE166E or FF165E) when you hear what they can deliver in the proper enclosure. i will tell you that they take some serious break-in time (a good 200 hours on the 166's) before they begin show their capabilities. in my experience, they were extremely congested and verging on difficult to listen to when i first played them… although YMMV.

hatfield August 02, 2004 14:11

I am thinking of building speakers using a full range fostex driver. How is yours compare to the B&W 805?
You don't think the speakers are a weak chain in your pretty good system?

If you say no, I probably will order mine with confidence.

gonglee3 August 02, 2004 02:27

thanks for the kind words.

crazy4blues-
Slipknot and Metalica would be much better served on another system. i'm thinking a VTL/BAT/etc. high powered push-pull tube amp or some solid state juice paired with Legacy 20/20's (if you haven't heard them driven with some power, they're worth the listen) would do that genre of music justice. now don't get me wrong... i'm listening to Jane’s Addiction "nothing shocking" on vinyl as i type this and it sounds pretty nice - just a little on the thin side. however, i'm prolly getting peaks around 105dB (the wife and child are out at the moment ;^) just enough to feel it.

i listen to just about everything (for instance, before Jane’s Addiction, i was listening to Count Basie's "88 Basie Street), but i find that the system really does enormous justice to acoustic instruments - "Summertime" on Garcia/Grisman's "The Pizza Tapes" is unreal! smaller jazz combos, bluegrass/folk, smaller classical ensembles are where the system really shines.

i will say the addition of a powered sub did wonders to flesh out the low end. it makes up for any shortcomings of the 6" Fostex full-range drivers.

as for their efficiency, 95dB is just barely enough. if i were to start from scratch and was looking to fill a larger room, i would opt for something a more efficient. however the pairing works very well for my current situation. i have a 2A3-based amp set-up as well, and the 95dB efficiency is just right.

raytheprinter -
i do like the PH-1, but i have the Ph.D in my system to demo and it offers a noticeable improvement (i was thinking about upgrading to the PH-1P and was offered an in-home demo on the Ph.D). is it worth the difference in cost...? let's just say the jury is still out. i'll concur with all the reviewers though... this thing delivers JET BLACK backgrounds!

i have it cabled with Audience AU24's (pre-amp link) and a Cardas-based tonearm cable (Cardas DIN plug, Cardas 2x24 wire and Cardas RCA termination - Kevin @ DIYCable built it for me). I also have an Audience AU24 tonearm cable, but I've been favoring the DIYCable cable lately. both are exceptionally reveling and quite neutral, but I’m favoring the copper in the Cardas cable… I guess you can call it my flavor of the week.

hat

hatfield August 01, 2004 19:49

nice system,i have a ph1p acoustech,am wondering how you like yours and what cables are you using for it,also looking forward to your answer to crazy4blues question.thanks

raytheprinter August 01, 2004 09:09

Wow, very nice! I wouldn't think that 95db would be enough for 2 watts. But I've used as little as 5 watts for my 90 db Soliloquys (they want more like 20 watts, I think). Question: What kind of music sounds best on this system? Will it play Slipknot and Metalica as well as Trane and Bach?

crazy4blues August 01, 2004 00:40