Hi again,

Santa Fe is a pretty quaint place. However, I actually like ABQ better, more down to earth, good artists and music, a decent symphony orchestra, and the Green Chile is better here (I hope nobody from Santa Fe will read this or I might have to fear for my Life. Chile is taken very seriously in NM).

Thanks for the link although I have seen the link for the Denon cartridge before. I do think the Denons have a "Love it or Hate it" sound. I do have a slight preference for the accelerated edge to notes that the DL103 brings out, which I do perceive as fast and dynamic in my system. Actually the Nordost cables I am using in my system do have the same (positive!?) quality, so do the Jolida and the Mission 751's I have. Maybe I'll be looking for more tonal richness in my next system.

One thing about the Aurora. As far as I know the Aurora in not a fully suspended design which might make it fairly susceptible to vibrations from your speakers, especially if they are seated on the same shelf. The Tecnodec was pretty sensitive to what it was sitting on. I used to have a stone plate sitting on top of my home made cinderblock table which did not work very well (very thin sound). The best support was the light unfinished oak plywood board. I tried some bright star platform with disappointing results (soft and bloated sound). It might be worth playing around with different supports.

I noticed that the Jolida could be a bit moody from day to day (probably just like me). I do think there are days where it really sounds wonderful whereas on other days it is a little on the cool side. Unlike my Linn system, which sounded the same every day, although that did not help matters since it did not excite me most of the time. I would assume though that the DC power supply for the origin is pretty insensitive to power fluctuations. By the way, the Dino doesn't have an on-switch for a reason, it takes quite a while to warm up and sound good. Otherwise it starts of cold with a cold sound.

For the cartridge I use Last stylus cleaner before each session and Zerodust between records. There are a lot of recent threads on Agon over the last few months, including Dougdeacons "sandpaper" method. I haven't tried that yet.

As always...enjoy!!

Rene

restock September 30, 2004 15:52

I just spent 10 minutes using a q-tip soaked in alchohol to clean the piece of metal bar that connects the tonearm's tube to its base as well as its bolts and spacers. When I put everything back together, the tonearm just skates away from the center of the vinyl. Apparently, I've either taken off some weight off the tonearm after cleaning it or simply reduced the viscocity of the tonearm's connecting rod.

I had to increase the VTF by about 3 grams according to my estimation, and I only set the VTF at 1.9 grams according to my Shure force gauge.

The bit of glare I had up top slighty decreased. Air and detail increased a bit more.

I attempted to clean the crud because I am starting to learn that the resonance of the tonearm is critical to the front end's sound. And, anything that touches the tonearm will influence the tonearm.

And, I started to dislike the sound of my table a bit. I don't know whether it is the electricity that is temporarily worse now, or my table is going through a downward curve during its burn in process. So, I felt impelled to do something about it.

I think I still like the sound of the table more yesterday than today though.

viggen September 30, 2004 13:15

Rene,

Never been to Santa Fe but does seem tempting. Definitely want to go there some day. Heard there's a pretty artsy community.

Regarding the Denon, I found an amusing link:
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=46

Regarding the record stores in LA, thanks for the link. I did go to Amoeba last weekend. They have a very good slection. Reminds me of the Tower Records I went when they were still selling vinyl 15 yrs ago but better. I will hit some of the stores in the link this coming weekend.

Be nice to your cartridges in the mean time, oh, and what do you use to clean them?

Ed

viggen September 30, 2004 12:16

After your great thread last time I had to see what you finally ended up with.

If you count all the Californians living in Albuquerque, New Mexico, including all the movie stars who own Ranches in Santa Fe and Taos, you might think you are in southern California. It would be quite a drive though to A/B cartridges. However if you ever feel like visiting NM, please drop me an email. If I happen to go to LA sometime I can take the carts along and drop you an email.

I got the Kontrapunkt A from Needledoctor who is the official distributor in the US for Ortofon. They always have great deals. I actually got the Kontra A when my Denon broke (what euphemism: I pretty much killed it because I forgot to put on the needle guard when I changed arms from the P3 to the Tecno, may it RIP). I kind of got the Ortofon as a replacement since I could not get to a new Denon fast. Also I was just curious.

I right now got a DL103R that I just mounted a week ago. I really liked the smooth and detailed highs of the Kontra together with its great midrange, but I just missed the great liveliness and dynamic of the DL103 with its fast tight bass. The 103R-version seems to be a good combination of both. I'll still have to run it in for a while though. Maybe I will switch back to the Kontra later to compare. Anyway, it is always good to have some carts around for replacement in case some awful accident happens.

Good to hear you found some more good records...LA should have enough stores around. Check out this Agon thread...

excellent used LP stores in Los Angeles LA

Like I said earlier, I pretty much started in the same way ten years ago just out of curiosity and only with five records. And one more tip if you get some more records: It took me 10 years to finally get a record-cleaning machine. Right now I can't believe I waited this long.

All the best,

Rene

restock September 29, 2004 14:10

Rene,

Thanks for chiming in!

I just went through a series downgrades to end myself up in the budget minded category. But, the expense from the added turntable pretty much disallows me to conscientiously categorize myself as budget minded. However, in audiophile terms, I guess my system is still budget level.

“From what I heard you probably can't go wrong with the 501 though (even if it is not silver).”

I think you eerily know me too well haha. But, the black does go better with the table if not the arm.

And, I just bought 8 records over the weekend. I am actually finding a lot of stuff that I really enjoy listening to that is only available on vinyl. Only part that sucks about this analog business is how often I have to get off my ass to change LPs when the needle hits the label.

Yet, I am now in the opinion of how can I have been an audiophile and not have owned a LP player for this long. I haven’t even touched my CDs since I got the table set up. Might just be a temporary novelty factor with the LPs, but I really don’t see myself touching the CDs anymore unless I buy something from a fave artist who doesn’t release in LP format.

Yes, I will continue to let the current set up play to get a better handle on whether what I am hearing will further improve or not.

I’ve been told the Shelter takes no more than 15 hrs to burn in by the dealer. I’ve read 50 hrs from various threads on AA and on da Gon. So, we shall see.

You don’t happen to live in Southern California do you? It would be nice to be able to do some A/Bing with our perspective carts and the rest of the system as well.

BTW, where did you get your KonA from and for a good price?

Ed

viggen September 29, 2004 13:12

Hi Ed,

Finally we see your new toy to play those three records.... nice choice.

As a fellow Dino owner: Since both the Dino and the Shelter look new you might want to wait a few days until you listen to the Shelter. When I got my Dino together with a Denon DL103 several years ago, the first 50 hours were pure torture. I was almost switching back to the Rega Elys and Creek phono. The highs were unbearable, the bass was pretty thin, not even a sign of warmth. Once I got past the 100 hours everything was great. Lively, dynamic, with great bass and mids. Only the highs remained slightly grainy (My recently acquired Kontrapunkt is much better than the DL103 in that respect with its smooth highs). I kept the DL103/Dino running on my P3 for about three years before upgrading the TT to the Tecnodec, which is probably the best judgment on how I liked the combination.

I am not sure whether it was the Dino or the DL103 that took so long to break in, but my guess is that a (low compliance) Shelter with Dino will take the same time to even sound acceptable. From what I heard you probably can't go wrong with the 501 though (even if it is not silver).

Funny you said you just changed your system from budget to ever evolving...
I just did the opposite switch for mine. I really like the combination I have right now (and that after I just downgraded the CDP and amp from something more than twice as expensive).

I hope you'll find some more records to play on that really nice table.

Enjoy!!

Rene

restock September 29, 2004 11:37

I need some help choosing a cartridge.

I have maybe 20-25 hours on the Shelter 301. It sounds great. However, I am getting greedy. I want more. I want more air, body and a pinge more warmth. I characterize the 301 as very neutral and relaxing sounding but not mellow by any means.

This is the only cartridge I've owned (only table and arm for that matter) and would like opinions on where to go from here cart wise.

I have a 501 MK2 coming for demo in a few days. I am also thinking about the 901 as there is a demo available for ONLY 300 and change more. I also wonder if other choices from Ortofon either the Kontrapunkt A or B or the MC30II should be considered.

Thanks in advance.

viggen September 29, 2004 08:38

Hi DK,

Thanks for the nice note. AR is in Carlsbad which is about 1.5 hrs south of LA from the 5. Dean actually did the driving when we went down to Carlsbad last week. We made good time in his M3...

I actually have some nice Skylan speaker stands which is what Galante uses at the Shows. But, with the Twins, I am preferring to table mount. It's sitting on a 20lb slab of marble with BDR cones between them. This saves me a lot of space too. I will see how it goes with the Galantes when I get them later this week.

Currently, the Skylans are being used as a drink coaster and a laptop stand.

Dean might be drop by next week to give my new table and speakers a listen. You are more than welcome to come if you are up for the trip this time.

Regarding washing LPs, I am actually getting very good results with this http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069298077436&productCategoryId=cat08042&type=product.
I've been using this on my laptop for years. I now use that on the vinyl and scrub VERY hard until I hear a squeeky noise then I know the vinyl is clean. Definitely not for the arthritic...

Ed

viggen September 28, 2004 14:02

Ed:

Very nice. Where is Audio Revelations located?

If the Twins are in the same ball park as the Galante's drive up to the Hood and borrow my Target HR70 28" stands (should improve the sound of the Twins, over table top mounting, quite a bit).

Also, if you don't plan on using a record cleaning machine pick up a Groovmaster on Ebay. The GM seals off the label portion of the LP (both sides @ once) in order than you can do some serious wet/hand cleaning.

Even with a machine I'd still recommend using the GM first as you can safely rinse the LP/grooves with lots of warm water prior to applying a brush. Brushes will scrape hard foreign particles against the vinyl (not a good thing) and it's best to flush most/all of this out @ the start. I use the GM on the final rinse as well, though with warm filtered water for this step (assume you have the same crappy tap water we do).

dekay September 28, 2004 02:12

Also, I am looking for a preamp as I have two sources now. I already broke an IC when switching it from CDP to LPP. I was thinking I need a tube pre to help drive the Gaincard properly something like an AudioNote M2. However, with the OL TT plugged in, I don't think the Gaincard needs any help. So, on with my search for a really transparent and quiet preamp.

I also have a pair of new second hand speakers coming my way: the Galante Rhapsody. The Twins are magnifiscent but wondering how much I am missing versus a more expensive and acclaimed speaker.

I had to switch this system from budget to ever evolving... my poor checking account...

And how can I forget to add that Jay at Audio Revelations is a revelation in customer service and product knowledge. Could not be happier with another liason during my re-entry into analog.

viggen September 26, 2004 04:39

It was a voice calling to me from deep within… It had control over my every thoughts and whims. I was succumbed by its gnawing grips tearing into my skin dermis by dermis.

Days later, I arrived at a cavern filled with tables rotating with oblong walking sticks fixed in horizontal positions scratching endlessly … I had to possess…

I exchanged the numbers on my plastic for a table that spun plastic….

A week later… the table is set up.

I am glad to share that those voices led me to a happy place.

After setting the table up which took no more than 10 minutes, I was amazed at how easy it is. On hand, I am armed with Allen wrenches, a few flat and Philip head screw drivers, a tone arm template, a strobe disk, and a Lowes’ fluorescent lamp.

Ok, it actually took about an hour if you exclude the time I spent on adjusting the rotation speed. Using the strobe disk is very easy, however, I had the table spinning at about 10 RPM for like half an hour thinking the strobe doesn’t work. Turns out I just had the table spinning too slow. After I sped it up, it was a snap.

Then, I waited about a week for the tone arm and cartridge. Actually, I couldn’t decide on which to get. The obvious choice is the OL Silver or Encounter, but I had my eyes set on the Bluenote U3 tone arm because it’s cheaper, supposedly sounds damn good, and it looks gorgeous. I hate the way the base of the OL tone arms look; although, the tube and head shells are gorgeous. After fumbling around, I finally decided on getting the OL Silver, and the 301 because it’s silver body matches the tone arm so well.

I have one of those $25 Shure stylus gauge force thingy which, after reading up about digital meters that come within .01 grams of resolution and how one hundredth of a gram difference can create an audible degradation, I am amazed that my monkeying around with the cart and arm actually results in very good sound. I really think my procedures were crude during installation as I never installed a table before plus my anticipation to finally fire the sucker up.

I did break a conductor in my home made OTA interconnect during my haste. I had to resolder the damn thing. Ten minutes in damnation before I can get the left channel to work…

Instead of getting vinyl cleaning solutions at $30 a pop, I am using my LCD screen cleaning solution and cloth to clean the vinyls at the moment. I still hear lots of pops and clicks during the first 20 seconds of the LP, but it either goes away or I tune them out mentally afterwards. I am curious enough to use the solution people are talking about by Frumkin to see if the pops can be further ironed out.

viggen September 26, 2004 04:33

Re: rtanny wire. I suppose it should be... it's just enamel-coated copper wire, made to very specific specs regarding diametre and the insulation's heat resistence.

gregm June 21, 2004 17:25

They are very similar. But, you'd think the JTMs would be more coherent since it uses a single driver design. I actually think the Twins are more coherent. I think the JTMs being made of MDF instead of natural wood has something to do with this. Otherwise, both are TL speakers with about the same sensitivity and frequency response.

viggen June 20, 2004 09:03

How do you compare the Twins with your previous speakers, Carolina JTM's?

salesavvy June 19, 2004 02:21

Tranny wire? Is the Paul Speltz anti-cable sold here on the Gon tranny wire? Supposedly, it's the same wire inside his auto transformer.

viggen June 16, 2004 01:28

Got it, thanks.

Smoothing is indeed very important -- one of the reasons it's difficult to use, say, silver wire intended for jewellerly: the wire diametre is not constant to very close tolerances.
BTW, the tranny wire is (supposedly): +/-1ppm/km diametre. Cheers

gregm June 14, 2004 21:10

Hey Greg,

The smoothing of the cable thing is to prevent the signal being transferred from being smeared. This is if you believe that things inside the cable can actually get in the way of the carried signal.

Smoothing the cable is to remove the pits and valleys that are on the surface of the conductor. We're talkin microscopic levels here. I am not even sure that you can do this DYI style. Cuz, if you sand down one area than the other, then you're probably doign more damage than good.

Just for reference, I am looking at the tonearm cable sold by Ohmygodverizonnet here on the Gon. This seller have taken this cable smoothing thing into consideration. He's also taken the interior of the cable into consieration too being that the wire is "contious-pulled". It probably only lacks a cryoing process but who knows.

Dunno if it can be better than the OTA which is also continuously casted but has been cryoed. The copper in the OTA is also very soft. I think it went through an extensive soft annealling process. Dunno if the tonearm cable described above has this. I theorize this is an important factor in terms of alleviating the transfer of maliscious mechanical vibrations.

Now this is a lot of audio voodoo as you described in the typical audiophile thread haha.

viggen June 13, 2004 15:52

"Sanded to a smooth surface" -- waddya mean??? Kindly elucidate, thanks...

Re impedances, it's of course useful to have a low impedance source -- but I'm in that category: I'm looking at 22ohm cdp output into 10k Ohm main amp / 4 Ohm phono output. Beautiful so far. I have the 22 Ohm hit the attenuator that's more or less constant at 10kOhm output. So, supposedly, I'm transfering energy (including voltage -- no flames please!) to the amp. So, theoretically, I shouldn't have cable differences (OK except for cases of extreme capacitance or reactance, etc).
But I do. But the sanding you refer to is a lead.
Cheers

gregm June 13, 2004 07:28

Hey Greg,

I was wondering about the same thing in regards to input/output impedances between compnents. It seems to me that you CAN use the same wire through out the system but only IF the impendances can match OPTIMALLY. And, this assertion assumes that there is an optimal impedance match between components and not just a range of tolerable thresholds. This scenario probably never exists even between compnents of the same make. In any case, good luck with the Valhalla clone! I think one of the trick is making sure the conductor is sanded to a mirror smooth surface (again with the sanding).

viggen June 12, 2004 05:20

Interconnect -- no cigar. The Valhalla IC (one example) trashes all my diy attempts.
It seems the signal transfer doesn't work in the same way. In the amp-speaker relation the back reflections are perhaps /probably happy when the connecting wires are similar (in many cases a tranny or an emitter+feedback -- TO voice-coil wire, or passive components+voice-coil wire). So we're somewhat symmetrical and connecting like-to-like - if nothing else.

This doesn't apply between the output-input connection with the other devices: think of what the wire is connecting b/ween cdp and, say, pre... furthermore, while the next stage for the speaker is the ear, in the case of a pre, there's another active device... not very analogous components.
It's a bit easier with a "quasi"/constant in-output impedance attenuator, but still: have to succeed the (say) cdp->amp transfer...

I'm trying to clone a Valhalla and still can't figure out WHAT the trick is (if there is a trick, dunno)

Cheers

gregm June 12, 2004 03:08

Greg, My hunch is that using the same wire throughout the system will reduce distorting the signal, hence, this is why I want to bypass the speakercable terminal as well. So, I think I see what you are trying to do in regards to your speaker cables. It's ingenious. How about the interconnects in relations to using or not using the same wire throughout the system?

viggen June 11, 2004 17:16

Speaking of that discussion (OTA), I probably should thank you! I tried what you suggested (wasn't very successful in the varnishing:( but it worked all the same). I ended up using (enamel coated) tranny/ voice-coil wire as speaker cable on my Genesis. Amazingly, I'm very happy with it (replaced Valhalla).
Likewise, in connecting Lowthers to amp (with 20gauge trying to match, more or less, the diametre of the EX4's voice-coil wire)
Cheers

gregm June 11, 2004 16:15

Hi Greg, Thanks for your comment. I'd also like to thank your for your participation on the OTA wire thread here in the forums. Your inquiries on these wires, stripping and varnishing, did inspire some creative wire use in my system.

Dean, I am telling you, it's the Leica lens on my digital camera. And, yah, like Bruce says, simpler is better. = P

viggen June 11, 2004 01:47

Hey Ed,

This is sweet! It looks like you're teaching us all how simpler can be better. As always beautiful use of natural lighting in your photos. I'll definitely have to have a listen.

Good job!
Dean

gunbei June 10, 2004 00:33

Nice & sweet & small:)! I like the JMR Twins a lot.
Hardwiring the spkr cable to the x-over should make a difference.
You might also consider attacking the spks' internal wiring -- if so, it'd be prudent to use shielded wire.
Cheers!

gregm June 09, 2004 16:48