Description

I renamed the system. From Twin Platters rim drive it is now a Classics tournament: I will compare fairly 4 classic TT : Thorens TD 124 MKII, Garrard 301 and 401, Lenco L75 PTP3 on same slate plinth with same(TD124) slate armboard and same Phantom tonearm in same system. The TD124 is finished, now the Lenco is following...
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    • Lenco Superplatter L 75 / PTP3/ Slate plinth /
    Classic original bough cheap to upgrade with 26 Kg slate plinth/ PTP 3 topplate/ 15 Kg platter (VPI Superplatter) on top of Lenco L70 platter) Still not finished, a slate top plinth / tonearmboard has to be done, with motor controller to eliminate all the switches.Stainless steel platform between the two slate layers.
    • Thorens TD-124 mk II / Slate
    Heritage from my father. Slate plinth designed by me and made by Oscar Daffe in Belgium. Major upgrade . Slate tonearmboard. Various Schopper upgrade kits . Symposium couplers.
    • VPI Industries TNT III modified turntable
    I used the old platter as a RIM direct driving the new superplatter via rubber belt around it .The whole TT plinth is sitting on 3 Symposium Rollerblocks Jr. on Ultra platform. You can see on pics that the plinth feets are just for visual matter. Rubber belt replaced by Loricraft thread line between motor and rim drive platter. The rollerblocks tungsten balls are a smooth horizontal pressure to rim platter acting as a controlled buffer for vibrations and increasing speed accuracy, and on vertical plane acting as direct coupling TT plinth to the Ultra platform draining energy to it. The accuracy of this TT is much improved.
    • Symposium Ultra Platform
    Specialy made for VPI TNT with RollerblocksII direct coupled to TT platform bypassing the footers. The whole TT is resting only on 3 tungsten balls.
    • Symposium Rollerblocks II tungsten
    Direct coupling TNT III plinth to Ultra platform on vertical plane and applying a controled pressure between the 2 platters on horizontal plane.
    • VPI Industries SDS speed controler
    Synchroneus drive to 300 RPM SAMA reverse wired
    • Allaerts MC-2 Finish Gold cartridge
    Stereo cartridge
    • Allaerts MC-1 mkII
    O.6 mV MC very musical.
    • Graham Engineering Phantom B 44 tonearm
    With two armwands
    • Lyra Helikon Mono cartridge
    Mono cartridge
    • Purist Audio Venustas Tonearm cable
    Tonarm cable DIN to RCA
    • TRON Tron Seven tube phonopreamp
    Optimised by Graham Tricker for Allaerts Finish cartridge. Very high gain (>75dB)
    • SME 3009 mk II tonearm
    on Thorens TD 124 mk 2
    • Nagaoka MP 50 MM cartridge
    MM High resolution cartridge. As good as the Allaerts ! OK with GSP Revelation phonopre.
    • Garrard 301 Hammergray grease
    Very early 1954 very good condition
    • SME 3012 MKII tonearm
    With Garrard 301 Hammergray
    • Garrard 301 oil bearing
    strobe platter
    • Garrard 401 turntable
    early model, very good,very quiet and stable
    • Perpetuum Ebner P 33 Studio turntable
    This is my favourite jewel, 1963 idler/belt like the TD 124 but mutch smaller. I will keep it as it is, with the absolutely gorgeous tonearm.
    • Graham Slee Elevator + Revelation
    Phonopreamp direct connected to MC 275 via Purist Proteus Provectus IC using MC 275 volume controls (bypass a preamp). Has 15 different recording curves and mono switch for vintage albums.
    • Purist Audio Proteus Provectus RCA interconnect
    SE interconnect phonopre to MC 275 amp
    • McIntosh MC-275 reissue modified
    With NOS Telefunken/ Mullard military small tubes NOS ECG Philips 6550 tubes
    • Quad ESL-57
    Pair of mythic Quads refurbished by One Thing Audio in U.K. / Sound is gorgeous, clean and accurate, paired with ARC VT 100 amp.
    • Martin Logan Ascent i
    Hibrid electrostatic
    • Mordaunt Short Subwoofer
    MS 309 Sub very fast and matches well ML Electrostatic panels
    • Loricraft PCR 4 Modified
    Record cleaning Machine. I put damping tissues
    inside to lower succion motor noise.
    • Siltech Classic MKII speaker cables
    Biwired
    • Magnum Dynalab MD 90 T FM Tuner
    Triode FM tuner
    • Siltech Classic MKII balanced interconnects
    XLR for tuner and digital to ARC preamp
    • Audio Research LS-25 mkII preamp
    only for digital and tuner,phono direct to amp
    • Esoteric DV 50 UNIversal player
    Balanced to ARC preamp
    • Audio Research VT-100 tube amplifier
    only with digital

Comments 74

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Hi Jean (from another Jean), seeing a big VPI turned into an idler-wheel project warms the cockles of my heart. Absolutely stunning, beautiful work, and good thinking outside the box too! And of course I really like the direct coupling ;-)!! Glad to hear you heard the improvement. Now even Harry is getting into the Idler Game, so kudos to him too for trying, hearing and accepting!! It would be nice if you could eliminate belts altogether from that project, as what you have now is a sort of Super Thorens TD-124, already better than a pure belt-drive as you have discovered, but in comparison with true idlers (Garrards, Lencos) having lesser dynamics, transient speed and bass (the Thorens however would be improved by substituting mylar tape for that rubber belt), but it is already sounding very complicated to add in yet another platter to add to the drive system to accomplish this. But it is very interesting to see the sonic development of the idler-wheel principle in steps as you go along: the increased torque as you add rotational mass and apply the idler principle, the increased clarity and focus as you eliminate the suspension, the increased speed stability as you eliminate the compliant belts, and so on. It all bears out the idler wheel principle as it was developed decades past, and the seriousness of stylus force drag, which is what it is all about :-)!! Fabulous and constructive experiment.

So the other issue with idler-wheel drives is simple torque: there exists nothing in belt-drive motors today to equal those massive powerful idler-wheel motors of yore (which spun at 1500-1800 RPM), but, in keeping with the spirit of the experiment, you could tear a page out of the British Voyd book, creators of the multiple-motor approach now being adopted by certain high-end manufacturers: add more motors to increase torque. I don't know how this would factor in cost-wise. Voyd's 'tables went up the ladder as they added motors, their top having three motors to create their signature powerful sound at the time. You could try adding a second VPI motor, thread-drive makes this workable, as they come already handy in separate pods, and see what happens. I look forward to your continuing experiments and experiences with idler-wheel drive principles - torque, proper use of inertia, proper coupling, grip - keep it up!! Maybe some day you'll actually try a properly-rebuilt Lenco or Garrard as Reference and let us know your findings ;-). Your experiment is a very constructive exercise which increases our understanding of drive systems in vinyl replay. And keep your ears open for such intangibles as magic, musical excitement, PRaT, gestalt, harmony, which, since they are heard by audiophools the world over, aren't so intangible after all :-)!!

johnnantais