Thanks, Kirk, for the detailed explanation. I'm in full agreement with you regarding finding the right cord to match with the right component, hence the overall synergistic system effect. I have always gotten the best results in my systems when doing a little mixing of various cords. I believe that there's some laws of physics taking place that audiophiles(like myself) don't understand. That's why we let our ears do the deciding for us. I'm glad to hear that you're getting your system tweaked to suit your taste. But to sum it up, I also agree that there is no one best power cord for all components. I'm also glad to see that you're wifey is tolerating your expensive hobby. My wife never did get it. Enjoy your system.

sherod June 08, 2006 21:42

Tvad,

Thank you, and please no apologies! :) I had heard the Ferox has better extension at the extremes, however didn't have the "liquid" midrange of the Fluid version. I guess finding the right combination would make the most sense...

I'm not sure you caught this through all my rambling on the previous post, but I do have one of the new Purist Anniversary AC power cords on the way... actually FedEx should have it here in the next couple of hours... This is the new contego with both the fluid and the ferox... I am eager to get some hours on it and see how it compares...

Grant, again don't ever hesitate to jump in, I always appreciate your insight and advice!

audiofankj June 08, 2006 21:30

The Dominus also however, sounds quite closed in on the treble and cymbal extension. This is a broad generalization that has been magnified for comparison purposes - and varies upon which equipment has which cord... but this pretty much holds true. The Dominus AC cords I have are the latest Rev. C with fluid.

Kirk, what you describe is in line with the Dominus Fluid sound. The Dominus Ferrox has the open extension you say the Fluid is missing. The Fluid and Ferrox are different sounding cords. Before you make your final determination, you owe it to yourself to audition a Dominus Ferrox. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.

Most of the Dominus power cord owners I know use a combination of Fluid and Ferrox...Fluid is generally reserved for Digital sources.

Have fun.

Sorry to hijack your thread.

tvad June 08, 2006 20:41

Thanks Guido. The Esoteric is finally starting to break out of its "shell" and show what it is capable of sonically... I look forward to hear how it will sound in a few weeks.

As for the Epiphany X, yes and no. I got caught up in the "Purist Audio Dominus" power cord "destroys all" thread here on audiogon a few weeks back and ordered some of those cords to compare. My ears won't allow me to aggree with the statements made on how the "Dominus" crushes other power cords in all aspects.

One has to remember different systems will of course have different sonic signatures... (obviously) as well as each individual component will most likely have one or two cords out there that are a superb match sonically for that piece of equipment.

While I do feel the Dominus excels in areas versus the Epiphany X, it also does not compare in other areas. For example the Dominus has a very seductively textured and organic midrange, compared to the Epiphany X. The Dominus also however, sounds quite closed in on the treble and cymbal extension. This is a broad generalization that has been magnified for comparison purposes - and varies upon which equipment has which cord... but this pretty much holds true. The Dominus AC cords I have are the latest Rev. C with fluid.

Don't get me wrong, both are superb cords. Both have stregnths, both have weaknesses. At least in my system.

It gets better though. I have been auditioning/comparing the Purist Audio Dominus Rev. C Fluid, as well as the Purist Audio Aqueous Anniversary AC, versus the Epiphany, and Epiphany X's that I own. Today or tomorrow FedEx is to deliver a Purist Anniversary AC... That I am hoping is the best of both worlds.

I am in love with the seductive midrange of the Dominus, however all Dominus in my system makes the top seem rolled off and a bit less transparent than I would like.

I love the transparency and speed the Epiphany X allows, yet all Epiphany X in the system sometimes leaves the midrange a bit less organic/seductive than I would like, howver seemingly with much better pace/rythmn.

The Anniversary Aqueous seems to have the midrange organicness of the Dominus, with better extension on the top and bottom. However, with the smaller gauge is most likely better for front end components than amps and such with larger current draw.

The kicker with all of this - is the fact what I am hearing is relevant to how the cord on my current equipment sounds. There is no telling if the results will be similar, let alone close with different equipment. Not to mention an entirely different system. So please keep in mind if you are just passing by this system thread and reading my ramblings, your mileage may vary! :)

I have also been told the Shunyata Anaconda Helix Alpha is a phenominal cord on the Esoteric X-01 Limited. I have no doubt this is the case. There is however, a limit on how many power cords I can have laying around to swap in and out before the wifey goes ballistic on me.

Thus, until the unit is fully broken in, I really won't be able to determine which power cord I prefer most on it. At this time, I am using the Purist Aqueous Anniversary on the Esoteric (at least for the past two days!) in which I hope to have a "listen to" tomorrow night after giving it a good 3-4 days to "settle in" to the system.

What I am learning with switching power cords around, I can no longer make a general statement like, "Power cord A crushes Power cord B in all areas." I AM guilty of that in the past. That statement may have been true on say my power conditioner, or my amps. I have learned that statement does NOT hold true on my speakers, or preamp, etc.

Thus my big "learning experience" is not the generalization of the power cord, but to find the power cord that best interacts with the component it placed upon and its interaction with the rest of the entire system.

I wish it would be as easy to say power cord A is the best and just buy those. Tried it, been there. With power cord A, power cord B, power cord C, etc. Does not seem to work in my system or experience.

Think that is enough rambling for now... but Guido, yes, I am still using the Epiphany X on the X-01 Limited... just not every day of the week. :)

audiofankj June 08, 2006 19:57

Congrats Kirk! Are you still using the Epiphany X on X-01?

guidocorona June 08, 2006 03:26

Hi Sherod, my apologies for the delay in response... I have not really looked at the system thread in a while.

Initially I really would have liked to have the AA around for comparison, especially as the X-01 Limited was new... although it would be unfair to compare a player that has not broken in.

At this time I would imagine the Esoteric X-01 Limited is anywhere from 80-90% broken in. I was told about 800 hours is the magic number, and I am just over 550 hours at this point.

As of now, the player is sounding quite fine! The speakers are pretty well dialed in as well... everything just keeps getting better everytime I sit down for a listen every couple of days.

I have been told the X-01 Limited really allows you to hear the differences with power cords, thus I am going to try and swap a few back and forth soon, after the player is close to being fully broken in. Should be interesting to see.

It is very nice to be able to celebrate Christmas year round!

audiofankj June 08, 2006 03:13

System edited: Some of the components listed were in need of update. All power cords have been upgraded from Epiphany to the Epiphany X a couple of months ago. Audio Aero Capitole Mk II SE cd player has been replaced with an Esoteric X-01 Limited. The Esoteric has just over 550 hours on it as of tonight, and I am told about 800 hours are needed for full break in. The player sounds MUCH better than it did a couple hundred hours ago. I am eager to hear if the improvements continue.

audiofankj June 08, 2006 03:05

Hey Kirk. Glad to see you got a new addition to your system. It's too bad you couldn't have kept your Capitole a few weeks longer to do an in-house comparison. I look forward to hearing your impressions as the Esoteric breaks in. I would imagine that you have your new speakers fine-tuned to your room and the new Esoteric is the icing on the cake, right? Isn't it a great feeling to celebrate Christmas year round? Just yesterday, in 92 degree temperatures, I was whistling the carol Let It Snow.

sherod May 06, 2006 04:43

System edited: Finally! The new digital front end has arrived. Why is it, an unknown departure from what is "known" in your system to a new component, once ordered, makes one feel like a child days before Christmas? Well. For various reasons, thoughts began to talk me into considering an upgrade for the Audio Aero Capitole Mk. II SE. Crazy. I know. However, when a fresh outbreak of 'audiophilia nervosa' breaks out, there is only so much a guy can do. So emails and phone calls ensued. "Research" was compiled. A decision was made. This was to be a "state of the art" yet one box cd player. The order was placed, and was to be shipped out soon. However it appeared the distributor didn't have one, and it would have to be 'shipped over.' Well... a week or a bit more went by. All was set. It is to be here on Friday. *cough* That is last Friday. Yep. The unit was held up in customs. I had out of state travel all week, thus the possibility of a Monday delivery, though possible, was out of the question. Prolonged "days before Christmas as a child syndrome" ensued. The word came that the player was on its way, then the confirmation from UPS that it is here. Last night the beast was hefted out of its tripled boxed transportation cocoon. The plastic wrapping and layers were carefully removed. The manual was read to be safe... quickly albeit. The player was perched atop the stand, as I didn't want to take the extra time to place it into one of the shelves. It was carefully placed atop to allow for easy access and quick hookup. Interconnects, power cord, double check connections... ok - it's time. I depress the power button to see the blue lights come to life on the Esoteric X-01 Limited. In goes a cd, on repeat... 24 hours down, at least 500 or so more to go according to some, 800 according to others. Either way it is on its merry way to settle into the system. I hope to update the system components, as well as photos relatively soon. Just thought I would log a 'blurb' on the thread at this time.

audiofankj May 06, 2006 02:45

Thanks Amperidian - yes, time with some slight system changes, coupled with a spring fever case of audiophilia nervosa results in a wandering eye toward new equipment. Hopefully the ears will approve as well! I am actually considering a slight divergence in front end, however seem to have quite a bit of well respected input as well. I am just hoping the interaction between components work out well.

I forgot you mentioned the isolation equipment in my thread back a few months. After the new player breaks in - I will have to make certain to experiment and "tweak" it a bit. As with my Capitole II, this new player should be a constant in my system for many years to come (*cough* I hope)... only time, and hopes of a non wandering audiophile eye will tell.

Thanks for the well wishes.

audiofankj April 25, 2006 04:30

Interesting how time makes for want of change. Audition a whest audio dap in your system if you get a chance, before you sell the capitole ... it makes for a very nice step up for the original sound. If you think the capitole is one of the most analog sounding players out there, you're in for a treat ... try that whest (and make sure that powercords and isolation are as good as the rest of your gear). The new HRS damping plates work very well in conjunction with the capitole as well. And those BDR cones that come stock with the player ???? shucks, they should not have been used by AA in the first place ... really take away from the performance of this great player. The nimbus couplers/symposium rollerblocks (in double stacked config. with suberballs) just kill them! Like everywhere else, there is always room left for improvement. ... and that's always a good thing.
Good Luck.

amperidian April 24, 2006 16:32

See if you can audition a nonwhateversampling player. Their presentation is startingly different than the run of the mill. It's my opinion the nonners more closely resemble the real event. Srajan is very fond of his Zanden player. He has stated, in an interview at Positive Feedback, Nonoversampling players can be as satisfying as analog by using 16 bit Phillips chips, no digital filter.

If you haven't listened to the interview, its a hoot:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue23/ebaen_podcast.htm

At any event, the front end is where it all begins, and I can't think of a "funner" exercise. Enjoy!

muralman1 April 20, 2006 18:17

Hi Sherod, Hope things are becoming more peaceful for you... my "understanding wife" ? *cough* Well, understanding is not the right word. Somewhat tolerant, yes, somewhat accepting, yes, somewhat able to look the other way, yes for a while. I am able to "get away with" some changes here and there. But I have to make certain it isn't overwhelming. Understanding? No. Nope. Nada. She doesn't "understand" as she really can't hear the difference between most things (or choses not to)... which makes it more of a "selfish" hobby rather than a shared hobby which is a shame.

I am not going to worry to much about the "little things" anymore. A good system is comprised of so many pieces of great gear, however at the same time, it is necessary there is a superb synergy and interaction between all the gear. If something isn't making the greatest contribution/interaction moving forward in the system, I think I will be less "married" to the item, and look elsewhere for the better "fit." Obviously this has it's pro's and con's. In areas such as time, cabling interaction, system matching, monetary expense, etc. However, I have had my system where I thought "I am not going to change a thing" in the past, and I do want to get back to that sound. Time will tell. Who knows. I am not going to worry about it though. It sounds great now. I want to get back to superb!

Hi Vince,

Which component have I kept for the longest? The First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II is currently the holder out of my current gear. However, the BPT line conditioner (although not as long) replaced a BPT 3.5 Signature, and a BPT 2.5 Signature prior to that. Thus they have been stable. As well as the Meadowlark line, from the Osprey, to the Nighthawk, to the Blue Heron 2's before selling them recently.

As for digital front ends. I have what quite a few consider to be one of the best analog sounding red book cd players out there. What I am looking into is considered to be one of the best one box state of the art red book cd players. As to how it up samples, down samples, over samples I have no idea. I am looking for what will give best sonic performance. Hope to have a decision and update on this item in the next couple of weeks.

audiofankj April 20, 2006 17:03

Kirk, you are an audiophile with an itch. I wonder, what component have you kept for the longest?

As you have pointed out, the H2O is a blank slate on which you can write any scenario you so desire. I happen to like crystalline clarity, with as little flavoring as not to be noticeable by me. I love the nuance tubes add to the mix. As with food spices, a little can go a long way.

Have you tried non-oversampling digitals?

muralman1 April 15, 2006 16:46

Wow, Kirk. Thank God that you have such an understanding wife. Mine couldn't take it anymore, so she left me..but that's another story. I sure hope that your system clicks in soon to where you enjoy the music for a while.Sometimes you can get so much into the tweaking that you don't know if you're coming or going. Oh, the stress of being a die-hard audiophile. Hang in there, my friend. Life is good.

sherod April 15, 2006 06:26

It seems I have neglected the posting on the system thread a bit. Perhaps I will need to back up a bit. After several hundred hours on the new Summits the midrange was still sounding lean/recessed to my ears. In my opinion, the H2o Signature monos, as well as my First Sound Preamp are both very neutral in their sonic signature. My Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's were slightly warm. With the Summits sounding a bit cool and recessed I quickly assumed they are not going to sound good with my equipment. Thus, something had to change, as I needed the midrange to have that natural, lifelike, textured, organic presentation.

Thus emails went out, calls were made, forums at the Martin Logan owners site were scoured. Quite a few Summit owners were having great luck with tube amps. After much deliberation, I determined to try a tube amp on the Summits to hear the sonic differences in comparison to my H2o Signature Monos...

Let me go on the record as stating the gentleman/dealer I purchased the PrimaLuna Prologue Seven monoblocks was very helpful in explaining the differences between them, the Manley Snappers, Cary V-12's, etc., etc. With the reviews, all the positive buzz, and the price point, it really seemed like a "no brainer" to audition the ProLogue Sevens.

Thus the PrimaLuna Prologue Seven monoblocks were ordered and of course, I was like a child a few days before Christmas. The anticipation was overwhelming. Finally, the amps arrived, triple boxed, white gloves, superb packaging. The amps look so much better in person than in photos. The fit and finish is absolutely top notch, much more so than many high end manufacturers at three times the cost of these monoblocks. I was already in love with the appearance, as they looked as good as anyone could wish for.

The amps were quickly unwrapped, delicately placed upon my stand, interconnects, speaker cable, and power cords connected. Powered up, waited a few minutes and flipped the preamp mute off. So far so good. The first few notes didn't sound bad. Not great, but brand new amps, as well as new tubes... the manual stated at least 100 hours for break in. So in went a cd on repeat. After a few days, the amp did open up, the soundstaging improved, the mids were warmer and clean, overall more extension in both extremes. A few more days passed and approx 110 hours on the amps. I was having trouble finding the "right" tap for my speakers. The Prologue Sevens have three taps to tailor for the matching to the speakers, 2, 4, and 8 ohm taps. The 2 ohm tap offered the greatest control, with tightly defined bass, and plenty of detail, however seemed to lack midrange body and finess. It was just a bit compressed sounding for lack of a better term. Now, the 4 ohm tap opened up the midrange nicely. The vocals were more organic, overall the presentation was more dynamic, however the bass was loose, and the highs were a bit rolled off. The 8 ohm tap was the worst match of all three options, with an overall presentation of a "reverb pedal" being depressed when vocals or guitars were played. Not to mention bass control was worse yet.

In went a call to the dealer that I was going to return them, and was very pleasantly offered several more days to continue to put more hours on the amps and let them break in further. Thus four more days went by with approx. another 60 hours of play time on the amps. I can not say there was further refinement at this point, and the swaps between 2 and 4 ohm taps continued. The 2 ohm provided the bass control necessary, yet seemed constricted and lacked overall dynamics and ease. The 4 ohm tap provided a very nice midrange, yet loose bass and rolled off highs, not to mention with much improved dynamics.

Frustrated that the speakers weren't interacting well with either tap, I placed a call to the dealer to confirm I would be shipping them back the next day. The dealer was phenominal in understanding, offering another amp or amp manufacturer to try, etc. As those of you with tube amps know, the different impedance taps affect the sonic presentation from the output transformers on the amps when they interact with the given speaker. Although the Martin Logan Summits do have a powered woofer, the electrostat panels still drop below a 1 ohm load. This was obviously not the best interaction with this amp, and is not a poor reflection on the amp. It was just not a match that was made in heaven. A bit resigned the amps didn't work out, they were packed back up and shipped back to the dealer. Although the kind offer was extended to try another amp or monoblocks at this time, I declined as I honestly feared a similar result. I did intend to purchase the amps, and don't want to wear out my welcome by "trying" amps that may not be a good fit. (these were shipped from across the country)

A few hours after the PrimaLuna amps were on their way back to the dealer, it felt odd to not have music playing out of the system, so I decided I will just have to listen to the "recessed midrange" until I can figure something out. The H2o Signature Monoblocks got hooked back up and in went a Dave Matthews (not audiophile grade recording) cd for background music... I hit play on the remote and walked out of the room, headed for the office (across the hall) to go read audiogon. My head turned as the lyrics sounded effortless and the cymbal hits had a shimmer and body that was noticable through the door. Up out of the chair I went and back into the listening room to have a closer listen. The sonic presentation that had been eluding me between the 2 & 4 ohm taps on the PrimaLuna was there. Not only there, but there in spades! Out came Dave Matthews and in went Patricia Barber, then Leneord Cohen, then Diana Krall, then Holly Cole, etc., etc. Every cd in rotation for "evaluation" of the PrimaLuna's sounded superb. The bass was well controlled, tight, defined and well delineated. The midrange wasn't as warm as the tube amps, however it was not recessed, nor uninvolving at this time. The organic and liquid nature that I had with the Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's was back. The highs were the most startling of all. The cymbals and bells were astounding. The Summits sounded lifeless on the top end with the PrimaLuna amps in comparison.

Thus, the only thing at this time I could assume is the Summit's weren't fully broken in. As they had a good 5-600 hours on them prior to the arrival of the PrimaLuna's, and the manuals state 100 or 150 hours, which was well exceeded, had me assuming they were fully broken in. I called Martin Logan tech support and they stated this is a relatively new speaker and they don't necessarily have all that much feedback on the break in yet, and they just had a guy call a few weeks ago saying they opened up wonderfully after 1,000 hours. I honestly have no idea how many hours were on mine at that time, however there were definate sonic changes over the two weeks the PrimaLuna amps were in the system.

The speakers may still need to be slightly tweaked placement wise and such, but overall the sound is very good. They are a different presentation/sonic signature than dynamic speakers (obviously) and I do think there is a slight lack of midbass or upper midbass dynamics, however that could also be with placement tweaking and room interaction.

Thus, even though the PrimaLuna's were in some of the photos, they are not in the system. I would not steer anyone away from trying them. It really becomes important to have that amp/speaker relationship or interaction work with tube amps however. It just wasn't there with this combination. Keep in mind, the PrimaLuna's are 70 wpc, where the H2o's on the Summits are at least 500 wpc. Thus there are multiple variables at play.

So at this point, music is playing. Life is good. Presentation is still a little different from my Blue Heron 2's. Some aspects I like better, some I miss. Time will tell if I can get the Summits to work just right in my room or not. At this time I am considering upgrading the digital front end. Yep, I hear that... why confuse the situation more, you say? Why not? :) Unfortunately for me the trial of a new peice of gear may have me back on the merry-go-round for a spin or two. Will have to see how soon I can jump off. Hopefully soon!

audiofankj April 15, 2006 05:45

...ahhh...I remember now. The PrimaLuna amps (aren't they?).

So, how are they, Kirk?

tvad April 14, 2006 04:09

Tube amps? Did I miss an iteration? I thought the H2O amps were doing amplification duty...

tvad April 14, 2006 04:01

i'd love to hear how the new tube amps are treating you, i know you've been unhappy with the lean, recessed and uninvolving midrange, hopefully these tube amps are just what you need!

dennis_the_menace April 14, 2006 03:51

System edited: Just a system name change - nothting much exciting... :) New Summits are really starting to open up with about 800 or so hours on them at this point. Turntable should be making its way into the room soon, hopefully this weekend.

audiofankj April 01, 2006 04:13

System edited: Added photo of the room as it stands currently. The vinyl rig is still in the other room, as it hasn't found its way back into the listening room after remodelling as I am tweaking speaker placement, and now gear. During break in of the Summits, I concluded the midrange/vocals to be a bit on the cool side. I would personally prefer them to be a tad warmer, as the amps and preamp are quite neutral, I would imagine the change comes after selling the Meadowlark Blue Heron 2's (slightly warm) and adding the Summits (more neutral). Thus, much is going on. I am auditioning/breaking in a pair of the Prima Luna Prologue Seven monoblocks. They have close to 100 hours on them at this time, so it will be in the next few days that I will have to come up with a verdict on which amp stays or goes. Vince, yes and no. I think much of the bass issues have been corrected with the renovated wall. However, there is also much more emphasis in the midbass now (as expected) thus I am still tweaking speaker placement, as well as possible gear changes. Will try to update the thread as soon as some issues are sorted through...

audiofankj March 29, 2006 04:47

Tis true, Kirk, I love my Scinnies. I owe Henry for nearly all my audio successes. It has been a whirlwind of quantum leaps in audio evolution at this house.

Have you sorted out your system's bass performance problems to your satisfaction?

muralman1 March 11, 2006 15:38

Hey Vince,

That may be quite possible! I have honestly never heard of that before. I have heard vinyl sounds better with humidity... but when I have owned the ML's it was in Ohio, which wasn't much humidity (especially winter months) as well as here in Georgia, which will get humid outside, which would be mooted with the air conditioning as it is also 90 degrees out... :) Thanks for the tip. Always worth knowing a bit more about the possibilities though. One thing is for certain in my mind... as good as these Summits may end up after break in, I am quite sure they will not be on par with the Scintillas I heard at Henry's. Unbelievable. No qualms about it. You own a keeper of a speaker there.

audiofankj March 11, 2006 15:00

Kirk, a local A-phile neighbor of mine ran MLs for years. I remember he would never have me over for a listen if it was raining. I really don't know. I understand you have a wealth of experience with the brand.No worries.

muralman1 March 11, 2006 11:56

Vince - if you haven't heard the Electraglide Epiphany's you are probably better off not knowing. They are consistantly argued to be in the top few cables along with the Kubala-Sosna, the Purist Dominus, and the Elrods after the first three is usually how they fall out. They of course are system dependent to a degree, however they are all great performers that most will agree to. The ML's getting fat with humidity? Perhaps. I would have to say, don't beleive everything you hear on that one tho. :)

Islandear - I am quite humbled to have you place my minor remodelling "fix" in the same sentence with the stellar, entirely built and tweaked rooms by Albert and Mike. However, thanks for the compliment. I am just happy at this point it seems to have more than corrected the issue. I am logging hours on the ML's now... and they have really seemed to open up quite a bit this week while I was gone. Will continue to burn in for another week or two and get several hundred hours on them, then tweak the rake of the stat panel, toe-in, placement, bass controls, etc., etc. To answer your question, I am definately not qualified to be a contractor, nor do I have the patience. Audiophile, perhaps - music enthusiast would probably be the closest... when the system is sounding "right" it really doesn't matter what is spinning. It just sounds good. Happy listening.

audiofankj March 11, 2006 04:26