Description

My system as of January 1, 2006:

Marantz CDR-500 pro CD burner

Denon UD-M31 mini-sytem (only use amp and preamp)

Radio Shack magnet wire speaker cable

Tang-Band W3-871s full range speaker

You have to spend a lot to realize you don't have to spend a lot. This little system is so cheap it's embarassing to post here; but not if you heard how good it sounds! I consider myself fortunate that I have found satisfaction with such a modest system. Really good sound for not much money! Doesn't mean I'm off the upgrade path but now it's for fun, not necessity.

LISTENING STYLE

Rhythm and melody. Deep bass, LOTS of detail, and soundstaging are of secondary importance.

Volume levels 70-75dB

Room is 13 x 15 and highly reflective.

BACKGROUND

My hi-end stereo journey began in 2001 when my single driver Panasonic RX-C20 mini-system broke. I wanted a nice stereo my whole life so I got:

Nautilus 804's

Musical Fidelity A3cr power amp

Adcom GFP-750 preamp

Cary 303-100

Audioquest Granite speaker / Python (?) I'C's

The sound never seemed right, especially for the price. I listened to a lot of other stereos which also didn't sound right, especially for the money. There was always something wrong with the sound of every stereo I heard, regardless of cost.

My stereo began hurting my ears, partly due to my reflective room. I was still not feeling comfortable with the money spent on my "monument to materialism". I realized there was NO upgrade that would fix the sound and make it worth the money. I had to make a complete reversal and go all the way back to where I got off track and sold everything. I lost over $3,000 but consider it an education having never lived with a good stereo before and see the improvements. Now if I went back to expensive stuff again and the sound was less than perfect- fool me twice shame on me. I'd be throwing money away, good money after bad so to speak.

Because:

1) No matter how much money is spent, nothing is perfect.

2) In the hi-end merry-go-round, everything is obsolete in a year or two.

3) I would instantly loose 1/2 my money ($1,000+) if I wanted to sell. I could buy used but it's not fair to listen at the dealer then buy it used at the 'gon IMHO. Plus I'd always be wondering how brands X, Y, Z would sound in comparison. It could take a long time and shipping expense to buy them all used. Plus I wonder about the condition of used stuff.

4) If I could buy an expensive stereo and not give it another thought for 10+ years, like my car then, okay. But hi-end stereo is not that way.

My audio epiphany happened when I heard Epos M-15 / Creek in a small room. Detailed yet still musical. Very natural sound and made my B&W sound mechanical by comparison. No crossover components and the x-over above 5,000hz. Not a knock on B&W style of sound - studio monitors are made to tear the music apart to do the mixing.

So went back to my single driver roots and built some Tang-Band W3-871s single driver speakers:

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w3-871s.htm

with a Denon UD-M31 mini-system:

http://hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1653

I was going to build 2-way until I saw how complex it is to not just design the x-over but get it to SOUND right - if that's ever possible at all. I get adequate bass with the speakers up against the wall and some bass boost from the Denon's eq. Single driver speakers sound very natural and even tonally. I didn't realize how natural until I went back to listen to multi-way speakers - ugghhh. I always thought:

1) B&W with millions in R&D to spend could make a multi-way speaker sound as good as a single driver but with more LF, HF, and volume. I was wrong. Nobody can.

2) The engineers at B&W were the experts and KNEW how recorded music was SUPPOSED to sound. Wrong again - to my ears. I don't think Paradigm, JM Labs, Harbeth Compact 7es-2(wanted to run from room screaming they were so bad - Super HL5 / Naim were okay), are any better. So I don't blame B&W. It's just the way multi-driver speakers are. I am still amazed at how poorly $3,000+ speakers measure and sound in some areas compared to my $200 single driver speakers. Truly amazing.

I don't want 1st order x-over with room acoustic problems and head-in-vice sweet spot or big, room consuming, e-stats. I don't want the colorations of horn-loaded speakers and don't listen loud enough to require them. Now my speakers sit on the mantle. You can't imagine how nice it is not to worry about tripping over speakers and not having shades on the windows because the sun would fade the cherry veneer. Let the sun shine in!

Every component in the audio chain produces sound in it's entirety except (most) speakers. Read most any article on speakers and they start with "a single driver can't cover the full frequency range" and they discount the entire concept out of hand. True, but multi-way designs are a COMPROMISE vs. a single driver, not better in every way. I like them a lot, but $45,000 Rockport Antares are compromised in some ways when compared to my $200 speakers. Audio can be really strange. I don' t listen over 75dB so don't need the high volumes anyhow.

Why single driver?:

1) Perfectly phase and time coherent ANYWHERE in the room.

- Sound is reproduced as it was created. Harmonics are not destroyed as with multi-way speakers.

- I could never relax and be satisfied with multi-way because they just never sounded right. One reason I was always on the upgrade path. I couldn't just ignore the sound problems and resign myself to living with it - not for a $10,000 system cost.

- Sound is very natural. Even my girlfriend has been tricked by firetruck sirens in a song, for example, and thought they were outside - something that never happened with multi-way speakers.

2) No change in tonality crossing over to drivers of different materials. Every material has it's own "sound" be it metal, paper, kevlar, etc.

3) Beaming over 3kHz has eliminated the 7dB peak at 5kHz that ALL multi-ways produced in my room. And I don't need ANY room treatments to get flat F-R from 80-18 kHz either. One less thing to buy or trip over.

4) Perfect timing - PRAT if you will. These have better rhythm that any multi-way I've heard unless x-over is 5kHz or higher.

5) No x-over to absorb power, detail, and musical dynamics. Sound is detailed in a natural way without distortion you get from electronical components in the path of the hi-powered electrical between the speakers and the power amp. Passive crossovers do much more damage to the music than by placing crossover components BEFORE the power amp - such as an active x-over. I want as little as possible between the hi-powered outputs of my amp and the speaker driver. I realized a lot of the hi-fi "buzz" is just HF distortion, not detail or better sound.

6) Easy to drive with any amp. Not just because of no x-over. Mine has an easy 8 ohm load and no sharp phase angles or wild swings in impedance like you get from x-overs and blended drivers.

An interesting article on this is:

http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0600/super12.htm

Read the paragraph "The Quest for that Old-time Religion".

So after 4 years of staying up until 3am surfing the net, going to endless dealers, etc, I think I've finally found the basic path to follow. Thank God, I never thought it would happen.

I now use the Marantz CDR-500 exclusively because the Denon DAC was incoherent, jumbled and fuzzy in comparison. It also took power from the small power supply.

Next up is 4" single driver which I hope will give adequate bass extension without eq.:

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w4-1320sa.htm

If I can get adequate bass without eq. I'll build this LM3875 gainclone:

http://www.audiosector.com/lm3875.shtml

and Scott Nixon non-oversampling DAC:

http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm

DIY is good :-). DIY takes time to do so it slows me down from changing stuff out every few months. DIY also makes it impossible to justify a $1,000+ amp when I can make one for $200 or so. I'd be spending time on the chat sites anyhow so might as well put the time to good use and make stuff myself.
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Components Toggle details

    • Marantz CDR-500
    Pro CD burner
    • Denon UD-M31
    22 wpc mini-system.
    • Radio Shack magnet wire
    enamel covered solid copper wire. 1 strand 22 ga. and 2 strands 26 gauge twisted together.
    • Epos Tang-Band W3-871s
    Hey, I had to put something in for mfr. Really a 3" single driver / full range speaker
    • Marantz ST 6000 tuner
    solid state tuner. Dual antennae inputs. Powerful front end pulls in weak stations. 24 presets with "scan presets" a nice feature

Comments 29

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Cdc: What i have over here right now is a complete cluster**** of electronics stacked everywhere. It's not pretty, nor even real usable in some instances.

I've been experiencing flooding on a couple of different occassions here lately, resulting in the removal of parts of my basement ( two walls ) and the redistribution of TONS of "spare" gear stacked all over the house. I did this to protect the gear once i realized that we had water coming in and were expecting more heavy rains. I lost several days of work in doing so, which hurt me both physically and monetarily. All of this because of recent construction in the area, which changed the water routing / sewer capacities.

My girlfriend said that the inside of our house looks like an electronics version of Fred Sanford's back yard! I wish i could disagree with her, but she's right !!! It is amazing the amount of "stuff" that i've collected over the years.

The funny / sad part is that i ran out of room a long time ago, hence my renting a warehouse with my brother just so that we would have room to work on / build some of the projects we have going on. As it is, i now have items that i've moved over there for storage too i.e. multiple cases full of raw speaker drivers, transformers, etc... This is besides having a garage full of "stuff" stacked to the rafters.

I think that my "hobby" has gotten a bit out of hand. Needless to say, there's plenty of material for a Stereophile article here, as in how NOT to do things or let your "hobby" get too out of hand :(

As to copper foils, i think that Chris VH had info about various sources for this material in the archives of AA. Try looking in the Cable Asylum and do a search for "copper foil", etc.. The key here is to find a way to keep the foils seperated enough not to short out, yet stacked close enough together to maintain the appropriate impedance for best power transfer.

As far as isolation transformers go, Ebay can be a phenomenal resource for these. I've purchased several from there for FAR less than i've been able to find them anywhere else. Like anything else though, how you impliment them into the AC system can make as much of a difference as to whether or not they work as as intended. Sean
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sean

Cdc: I see that you're using one strand of 22 gauge and two strands of 26 gauge for speaker wire. Is this for interconnects, speaker cables or both? How do you have the conductors configured? Your wording in the description is kind of vague as it implies that the two 26 gauge are twisted together, but it is unclear as to their relationship to the 22 gauge conductor. Sean
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sean

Cdc: Can you picture the amount of timbral and harmonic coherence that you currently have combined with POUNDINGLY deep bass and an extremely spacious sounding 360* radiation pattern? If so, you'll understand why i feel the way that i do about my Ohm F's : )

As i've said in the past, hearing a TRUE "full range" point source driver in itself is a revelation in terms of harmonic structure. Combining that with the spatial qualities of a "true" Walsh driver makes for a presentation that will have one re-assessing their listening priorities.

There's also something to be said for using a single path of solid core wire for each polarity, isn't there? Obviously, we have more in common in our findings and experience than differences, and i think that says a lot.

I'm glad that you were able to find something that makes you happy, both in terms of sonics and an enjoyable hobby ( DIY electronics ). So many people overlook the simple things that form the foundation for good sound and an enjoyable experience, as they get hung up on brand names and cost. That's too bad in my opinion, as they'll never know what they are missing. Sean
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sean