I've been waiting to pull the trigger since 1986, and finally did so today, 10/2/2008, from House of Music in San Francisco.
I've always been a solid state guy, and assumed I'd purchase solid state equipment when I finally bought a serious system.
Recent auditions, however, have made it *clear* to me that tubes simply sound better to me. I almost blush saying it, as I've *not* been a tube guy in the past.
It seems most young people are into solid state, as I was when I was young (I'm 42 now). Funny how we get smarter as we grow older, eh? :-)
The McIntosh products were used, on consignment. They appear to me to be entirely blemish free and sound absolutely fantastic.
The preamplifier is one model out of date, but the amplifier is entirely current. House of Music refurbished the units (clean, test and bias, I suppose), but the tubes are factory in both, with very low hours.
I'm such a tube newbie I've only just begun to understand that I have a lot to learn about potential tube replacements!
They have a very cool policy, which I'm finding to be somewhat standard in audiophile shops, of allowing full purchase price credit on upgrades within a year. Other shops had caveats, however, such as: still current model, only new equipment, etc.
House of Music's policy is very simple: 1 year full price credit for whatever you buy, including used and out of date models.
I'm excited about the speakers. I originally had planned on 805S units, but after listening to several stand mount speakers over the last few months, I'd been leaning toward full range speakers.
After listening to the 804S and 803D next to each other, I simply couldn't resist 803D's ultra smooth and spacious sound.
The entire set sounds fantastic! My friend Edward Muller and I listened yesterday for a couple of hours, then I went back with another friend, Loren Hale, this evening.
Rick Rubin, our salesperson, was *extremely* helpful and indulgent. We ran the system through *numerous* A/B tests including:
Both sets of speakers, iterated over:
1) Mcintosh CD player (model?) with a handful of supplied CDs including a very nice sampler/setup CD
2) Digital music, compressed and uncompressed, from my MacBook Pro through Airport Express to Toslink input on said CD player
3) Stereo MC402
4) Dual mono MC501
5) MC2102 on 8 ohm bindings. House of Music had it set up this way, and base was thin and muddy
6) MC2102 on 4 ohm bindings. Much better match for these speakers, base was fuller and tighter, entire range had increased attack. Thanks to Audiogon forum members for suggesting this!
7) Dual mono MC2102 in bridged mono mode. Substantial improvement over stereo mode.
8) Dual mono MC2102 in parallel mono mode. The top rung of this ladder to everyone's ears. Spacious and dynamic, BREATHTAKING!
Ended up choosing to go with just the single MC2102 to hear at home before deciding to get a second, though deep in my heart I've already decided the dual mono setup is in my future. If I win the lottery I not so secretly desire a pair of MC2301s! :-)
The *only* thing that was less than perfect about the audition is that their high end rooms have a LOT of passive drivers absorbing energy.
I suspect that if I had asked they would have removed the other speakers, but they're pressed for space and some of the units are heavy B&W 800D and 802D units, so I didn't bother to ask.
Perhaps I'll have the dynamics of the dual monos that I desire without the extra power when there aren't a dozen passive drivers softening the impact! But, what would the dual monos have sounded like WITHOUT the passive drivers? Almost scary to consider!
Finally, Rick gave me a very nice price on some Tributaries brand speaker cables and balanced interconnects.
System edited: I moved into a new apartment a couple of months ago. I now have a rectangular room, and it's made a world of difference in my system. The speakers are now positioned on golden ratio lines. I've also gone to complete equilateral triangle speaker positioning, with speakers pointing *directly* at the listening point.
Very interesting. I am 44 and am new to stereo. I am piecemealing a system together. I have a vintage pair of Polk SDA-1 and a newer pair of LSI-15. I have a yamaha RX-V2700 running them and it sounds great to me...but i haven't listened to anything else. I am currently looking to purchase an amp and I too am very solid state minded (if tubes were so good why did computers drop them so many years ago). I was considering a Mcintosh 6900 or an adcom GFA-7807. Now I may have to reconsider a tube amp...
Oh, I should mention that I got my 2nd amp back and all is well now. I also did some more speaker positioning work, including tilting them down slightly, and I'm *really* happy with the way the syste sounds now.
Nice system. You should check out Stereo Unlimited in Walnut Creek. They make their own wire called Supernal in various forms and prices also with Furutech components. I don't work there and I'm only endorsing them because nothing sounds as real as one of their modded systems. They also carry Nordost Valhalla, Proflex, so you can do A and B comparisons with your own loudspeakers.[even if it's a line they don't carry]
They are the ultimate for modifying systems, rewiring speakers and amps, tweaking in general. You should also check out their Cryo services for NOS tubes, cables and components.
Plus, it's cool place to hang out and listen to some music on some awesome high end systems in a really laid back environment. Well worth the drive!
System edited: Turns out my tube complement was a bit more expensive than I expected. House of Music's repair guy called me today and told me that there are a number of heat damaged components on the 2nd 2102, no doubt from the over heated output tubes as described previously. Will be another 7-10 days, and another $250. I had sort of prepared for an even higher repair charge, so I'm a tad relieved to hear it's that low. Also some good news: McIntosh has issued an upgrade or two to the 2102s at various serial numbers. Those upgrades will be included in this round, so the amp should be sonically identical to my other 2102.
System edited: Added new Shunyata power components. I've always been a skeptic, particularly of a passive power distribution unit like this, but hearing is believing. I'd like to add a power regenerator some day. :-)
System edited: I put my speakers up on their spikes after spending a couple of weeks adjusting their position to best effect. The bass is tighter and more resolved on the spikes, and the system sounds better than ever. Tonight something happened that I found quite fascinating, surprising, and unexpected all at the same time! To this point I'd *always* run the C2200 with the tone bypass enabled (red light on). For some reason, I decided to press it again and listen with it disabled. The tone knobs were dead center in their detents. The system *immediately* sounded better to me. Voices were richer, imaging was improved, depth increased, and each instrument suddenly became more distinct! With the tone bypass enabled, a set of tubes and circuitry are removed entirely from the signal path. This is why I had disabled it previously! I'm a purist at heart, and I like the tonality of the system with adjustment. However, I'll trust my ears and disable it if it sounds better tomorrow. :-)
System edited: Feeling better now. :-) I messed around with the tubes in the new system, and noticed that while all the right type of tubes were in the right place, one of the tubes which was supposed to be a Tung Sol was, in fact, a Mullard. This, of course, should not cause the problem I was experiencing, but changing it to the right tube fixed the problem. I think what *may* have happened as a mistake in packaging. I'm quite confident about my original replacement, as I still had the tube boxes carefully laid out, and there's no doubt in my mind that a Mullard tube ended up in a Tung Sol box, and that I installed it without noticing. Since all the tubes were tested and matched, the mistake is easy to understand. What's interesting is that the Mullard tube must have been defective to act as it did. The good news is that everything is now working properly, and sounds absolutely gorgeous!
System edited: I'm a bit bummed today! I received the 2nd 2102 yesterday, and promptly got busy doing a massive tube roll of the pre-amp and both amps. I fired the system up, and it sounded nice, but I hope, and suspect, that it will loosen up a bit after a few hours use. I cannot put the hours in, however, due to the fact that the new amp has a problem of some sort that causes the 5th and 6th KT88 tubes to run enormously hotter than its peers. I changed the KT88s back to the originals, same problem. Then I changed the 12AX7 and 12AT7 tubes and still had the same problem. I suspect a biasing issue, but I understand the 2102 doesn't have user adjustable bias, nor have I ever biased in the past, so I wouldn't want to experiment at this level. Fortunately the Audiogon seller is highly rated, and gave me a 2 year warranty, so I'm not in a panick, yet. :-)
Yes, I know, and I'm very excited to receive the second 2102!
I listened to the system with dual-mono 2102s at the audio shop, and it sounded *fantastic*.
I'll say this, however: the system sounds very nice without it. I think that I may have been attracted to it in the showroom due to the passive drivers soaking up bass. At home, I'm not sure it will make such a big difference, and I may have overspent.
Will update once everything is in place, including new tubes, and everything has had a chance to break in a bit.
System edited: Received new tube compliment from Jim McShane today. I'm such a newbie, I literally cannot figure out which tubes go where...but I'm hoping they'll sound great once Jim straightens me out! I also heard that my 2nd MC2102 should arrive tomorrow, which would *rock*, as I have nothing planned for this weekend, so I'd be able to listen, and listen, and listen! I uploaded a photo of the tubes, and also of my computer, HeadRoom Total BitHead amp, and Shure SE530 headphones. It's truly beautiful digital music available while I'm working, and I love that sound that this very modestly priced "HiFi System" produces!
System edited: First System photos! Need to get some furniture for the McIntosh equipment, including 2nd 2102 not arrived yet, and get TV mounted on the wall.
System edited: Really enjoying the system! The speakers and perhaps the DAC are opening up, and the soundstage is becoming larger is moving forward, i.e. it was originally between or behind the speakers, now it seems to be between the speakers and me. Really looking forward to second amp and new tubes. I think I'll bi-wire the system at that point too.
System edited: Received the Bryston BDA-1 today, and I'm very happy with it. I cannot really compare it directly to anything else, but it's a HUGE step up -vs- the D/A converter in an Airport Express. :-) As described elsewhere, the soundstage and bass are wonderful. I had heard one report that it sounded harsh, but I'm not hearing that at all.
System edited: Speakers arrived today, along with the Tributary interconnects. Bryston BDA-1 has spent two days in local FedEx land, being mis-delivered to South San Francisco addresses. :-( The system sounded *tight* for a while, but once the preamp and amp warmed up, and the speakers got a little use, things started sounding good. Scared me for a while, thinking "oh no, what have I gotten myself into!" :-)
System edited: OK, just closed the deal on this beauty: http://tinyurl.com/4jntl5 Also, just ordered an entire tube set from Jim McShane (http://tinyurl.com/4dex42) who I found via audiokarma.org. I felt this was necessary to get the equipment into a matched and known state, as all the pieces were purchased used. Here are his recommendations: C2200: (1) 12AX7LPS Sovtek pair (2) 12AX7 Mullard reissue (4) CV4024 Mullard NOS For the MC2102s: (2) octets KT-88 Genalex reissue (4) CV4024 Mullard (4) Tung-Sol 12AX7 Jim McShane is a good guy, or certainly appears to be. He was very cool about a long string of newbie questions, and was more than happy to make the above recommendations as a good synergistic set of tubes for my equipment. Man, I cannot *wait* to hear this all put together!
System edited: Got a call back from Audio Advisors asking me if I'd like immediate delivery of a used black BDA-1. It had been shipped to a customer, who had noticed a missing screw in the case. The customer wanted a new one immediately, so AA shipped him a new one, then sent his old unit back to Bryston for resolution. The unit has a full warranty, etc. I said *absolutely*. No wait, and less money makes me happy!
System edited: Switched out Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC for Bryston BDA-1. The Alpha DAC proved to be unavailable, and the Bryston is probably better suited quality wise with the rest of my system. Additionally, the savings finances about half of my dual-mono ambitions. :-)
Oh, forgot to respond to your comment on the Tributaries!
I have not demoed them, and House of Music doesn't seem to have a large stock, but I *will* give the Signal Cable Silver resolutions ASAP on your recommendation!
The good news is that I really payed *very little* for the Tributaries, so if they're no good, they're a throw away. :-)
To be clear, I'm enjoying the anticipation of the system at the moment, and have already enjoyed the 22 year "hunt", particularly the last couple of weeks and finally the kill itself. :-)
Tmornini, Congrats on your new setup. That was really a long time you took to pull the trigger :-) But good to know that you are enjoying and learning a lot. Are you demoing the Tributaries or did you purchase them already? You can also try the Signal Cable Silver resolutions. Yeah, I do avoid tubes and LPs because of the maintenance. But of late, I am getting a bit curious about LP. This is mainly because some good Acoustics, Jazz and Rock music mostly shows up on LP. Hope you win a lottery and add those MC2301s to your system soon. In the meanwhile enjoy your new system!!
