I got the Hi-Fi bug a few years back and purchased the Adcom CD player and B&W Speakers with stands (also MIT IC and SC). I was very pleased with the noticeable sound improvement from my Mid-Fi Polk speakers and Sony CD player. For the past 3-4 years my system has sat and gone mostly unused. I have been using it more and more the past 2-3 months and am now hit by the upgrade bug.
The most obvious starting point is the Yamaha. While decent for HT set-up it doesn't drive the Nautilus' very well (80W at 6ohm). My original plans were to look into an integrated unit. Suggestions were YBA integre, Classe CAP-151, Moon I-5, Plinius 8200 MKII (Perhaps 9200) and a few others. These I listed probably lead the pack. The only ones I have heard are the Moon I-3 and a Plinius 9200 with a Meridian G08, Dynaudio 3.4's and about $4,000+ of Transparent Audio cabling! I fell in love with this rig!
I also listened to some CJ seperates PV10B and PV14L with a MF2250. I enjoyed the improvement in sound stage, more precise imaging and placement of instruments, a warmer sound that unfortunately lost some low end. I also demoed a pair of W-6 monoblocks run thru my Yamaha's pre-Out. While the power was great, the sound was marginally better.
Along this time I also demoed some Analysis plus cabling. Copper Oval In IC's, Oval 9 SC and Oval 10 PC. The most noticeable difference came from the PC into the CDP. Lower floor, crisper highs, deeper lows. The SC and IC were hard to hear much improvement. These combo's were used with the CJ gear, the Moon W-6's and also when trying a Moon I-3 Integrated.
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I started looking at a new Amp (likely Integrated) and now sit looking into seperates. Along the way I listened to the Dynaudio 3.4's (as mentioned above) and also some JMlab Electra (906 and 946). What this made me realize is how I am growing out of the B&W sound. By this i mean how loud the 805's need to be played for them to sound right to my ear. I don't think this is an uncommon flaw/issue with the B&W gear in general. When you put some power into them they do sound good - but I am looking to find a speaker that is more balanced along the volume range.
So here I sit now looking at new speakers and new power (either seperates or Integrated) and moving toward floorstanding speakers. My budget is ~$6,000 and could be tweaked up a little if the payoff was BIG.
I typically listen to a range of music from Jazz/Classical to New Age/Electronic with some definite pop/rock in the middle.
Constructive comments are welcomed!
One thing I plan to do immediately is get a dedicated circuit installed.
AMPS I am looking at: Plinius SA-102 and Moon W-5LE
Speakers I am looking at: Dynaudio 3.4, Energy Veritas 2.4i, JMlab Electra 927's (when they arrive).
PreAmps to look at: Maybe the Adcom GFP-750 (was highly reviewed and made Stereophile Class A) or perhaps a Tube pre-amp.
Again - I call on those with experience with these brands for some assistance.
I didn't have any of my "reference" CD's with me when I was auditioning the Plinius Amp. With 3 new pieces in the puzzle (Plinius 9200, Dynaudio 3.4's and Meridian G08) it would be hard to say what was causing a change in sound without pulling pieces out and substituting with something I knew.
My impressions were the soundstage was enormous. Mostly vertically was the biggest change. There was tremendous detail without being edgy or tiresome.
I am fairly content with the Adcom for now. With digital formats and players changing so often I feel money put into Amps/Speakers/IC's or SC's is probably better spent for now.
I have VTL 2.5, which I believe retail price is $2000 w/ tube phono amp (3 years ago). without the phono amp I think it's $1500, certainly competitive with the adcom price (1250 retail I think).
I think the VTL and plinius amp matches especially considering that I have linn ikemi which sounds a bit dry (but in a good way). when I upgraded my CD to linn, I also auditioned meridian 588 and had extensive A/B listening...both good players but very different. one of the reasons I chose linn was because of the decay softening on bass notes on 588. do you get that impression with G08???
@Glen - Thanks for the suggestions on the cardas neutral ref cables. I have also been thinking about Audience (from reputation/reviews), Analysis Plus (from dealer suggestion), Acoustic Zen and Transparent (from what I heard at a recent visit).
Cardas is certainly a well known name and probably can't go wrong. It seems from the little I do know it will take some experimenting to find the right pair (or some great suggestions from people with a similar set-up).
@Dizzyizzid
Interesting comments about your CDM7SE's. I also appreciate your comments about the VTL Pre-amp. What model are you using?
I have listened to the Simaudio Moon gear more since I have a dealer in town. I do like the sound, but haven't had a chance to A/B it on the same system. The plinius 9200 I heard with the Dynaudio 3.4's and Meridian G08 sounded great - that I know.
To your last question - no I have only heard the 3.4's and very briefly the 5.4's.
It seems for my dedicated line I need some Porter Ports. Too bad I didn't know about them last week while in Dallas!
Keep the comments coming - I truly appreciate the responses.
I have CDM7SE driven by plinius SA100 and VTl pre and definitely have the same problem regarding volume. at low and mid low volume, sounds lifeless to me. at first I thought it was the plinius amp but now that you mentioned it, maybe is the B&W speakers...
regarding the preamp, when I upgraded my pre I listened to the adcom also. I found the VTL to be more involving with a fuller and richer sound although maybe the center imaging wasn't as strong (I can't remember for sure, it was 3 years ago).
I've listened both the plinius and sim moon audio (only at dealer) and both are very good power amp but different in nature. IMO the sim has a more laid back yet detailed sound while the plinius (SA100) is very musical and involving.
I'm also interested in the dynaudio speakers.... have you compared it with dynaudio special 25?
That's a tough price range, maybe price some Cardas neutral reference, that was the line that the golden ref eventually replaced and is still sought after today. I think they can be had at your price point?
It took me a while to get where I am today but you never give up and eventually you get it all. You just have to keep upgrading as you see deals pop up.
It's good if you have an idea of where your going with your system and where you want to be in five years. You may upgrade everything you have three times between now and then but that's OK. Words of advise, get your wife interested in the hobbie :^)
I use to own a lot of Thiel speakers a couple of years ago and used MIT all the way through. I made it as far as the 770 twin line before moving to a lighter cable (physically speaking) After experimenting with Nordost Quatro-fil and Cardas I ended up staying with Cardas "Golden Ref" Which I have to this day.
When I changed speaker lines from Thiel to Aerial Acoustics the Cardas fit right in.
These day's I'm pretty happy with my rig and spend most of my time fishing through the vinyl bins around town for rare lp's.
Take your time and enjoy the music every chance you get!
I agree about the flat screen TV - but one thing at a time. With a 18 month old at home we don't get a chance to watch many movies :-)
I have listened to these speakers driven by more expensive gear as I mentioned above (including Moon W-6 Monoblocks) and the sound is very nice - but only when I give it some juice. Again, I certainly think this is inherent in most of the B&W designs. With respect to cabling, trying some Analysis plus cabling didn't allow my ear to hear any difference (except for upgrading the PC to my CDP).
I am planning on keeping the speakers in the nearterm to act as a refence for trying different amps.
Back to the cabling - any brands you would suggest that could be had in the $250-$300 range for IC's and $350-$450 range for SC. Used is certainly fine...
I don't know that you've actually experienced those speakers yet. Why don't you upgrade your speakers last? I think if you improve your pre,amp, source and cabling first your going to here something very pleasing out of those speakers. Plus they will act as a reference piece while your upgrading. (Food for thought)
In all honesty you'll be much happier with a flat screen monitor too and a better sub. (I hope I'm not picking to much).
I actually had the same problem a few years back with a middle of the road system. Enter high end gear into my life and boy did things change for the better. Your going to flip after you do some upgrading, To this day my family and I love watching movies on my current system which is sort of pricy, but if you love this hobby it's money well spent.
