My basic 2 channel system for a small house. The system started out in 1990/91 as a KSA 250/KSL/Oracle MkIII/Apogee Duetta Signature II system. That was when I lived alone...
My 'better half' is upset about the 'huge' Silverline Audio Sonata speakers. "They're all you can see when you walk into the room".
After a recent afternoon shopping in Beverly Hills, she said, "Have you been to the B&O store? They have these great speakers... they're stainless steel...really cool-looking. They're tall and thin -stunning" Did she listen to them? "No but they look great".
Irony - My first real system was a B&O - it looked great and sounded okay for what it was - designer audio.
Are the Sonatas too big? I suppose that I could get some smaller monitor speakers but, in addition to symphonic and organ works, I like rock and roll. Lack of bass extension just doesn t cut it for me. Also, I tend to listen at what I consider realistic levels.
Our house is 1600 sq ft on a hill overlooking the Pacific. We've lived here almost two years and are at the 'tweaking' stage both on the house and the system. Major work is done.
The listening area is an approximately 900 sq ft area comprising living and dining areas and adjoining kitchen. There is a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the audio and another for video/TV. The placement of the system in a corner is not ideal as I prefer the Golden Mean method of orienting speakers and listening areas.
The Sonatas have two placements everyday, pushed back a beside the equipment cabinet. This is acceptable for daily use as the drivers are still well in front of the cabinet.
The second position is well in front of the equipment cabinet, 44 inches out from the walls, 75 inches apart and toed-in so that the tweeters point at my shoulders in the primary seating areas. The natural wood ceiling, floors and slate fireplace are damped somewhat by the upholstered furniture. Overall its a good sounding room.
With the right material, the soundstage is wide and deep from the preferred listening areas left side of the sofa and a couple of bar stools behind the sofa or the arm of my favorite club chair also behind the sofa. It extends on the left, from the middle of the windows to the center of the fireplace on the right and from the front plane of the speakers, beyond the wall behind the plasma TV. Something like Concert center row H-K as opposed to row C or P.
Personally - I think the room looks terrific, huge speakers or not. Besides, when first entering the room, the wall of windows revealing an ocean view is overwhelming.
Originally, the system (KSL, Shanling CD T200 SACD player and various cable tuners, a Sony Receiver and DVD multiplayer) shared an armoire with a 35 Mitsubishi CRT. The armoire was nice but had issues - heat being one and acoustic interaction with the Sonatas another. The KST100 resided behind the armoire because of the heat it generates. The plasma TV required a change. After much discussion, we had a new cabinet made by a nearby designer who makes furniture in Mexico of architectural bits and pieces, doors, windows etc. The cabinet was fairly expensive (more than a nice BelCanto or Sanus rack system which I preferred). My influence in decorating decisions is minimal but has greater weight in engineering and technical matters which is the only reason the Sonatas are still here. The cabinet is open in front and partially open in back so ventilation is not an issue. The cabinet is actually working out very well.
As my first tweak - I'm placing some left over granite underneath the Krell pieces and the SACD player. Our granite guy has them and is finishing the edges. Then, I anticipate trying different spikes and bearings under the amp and preamp.
Currently I do not have space for my analog front end - a modified Linn that I've stored for 5 years.
The KSL and KST100 are good in that they (along with the Sony DVD/CD changer) are easy for my technically less adept mate to operate as an enhancement to the TV or to provide background music for a seemingly endless stream of baby showers. In the not too distant future, I anticipate adding a tube amp (VAC Renaissance 70/70 preferably) and tube preamp (cj/VAC/?) to audition as an alternative to the Krell gear.
The KST100 provides weight, authority and slam to the Sonatas which initially seemed to lack bass extension and power compared to the NHT 2.9s that they replaced. The Sonatas can be driven well by far less powerful amps than the KST100. I now realize that the NHTs (as good as they are) were larger than life. Better perhaps for home theatre than for effortless, natural music reproduction.
The Sonatas will produce controlled and liquid bass with extension that reflects published specs (25hz) assuming that:
Bass energy exists in the source material
They are very well broken-in (6 months at least)
They are driven by an amp with guts and control.
The Sonatas easily reproduce the opening measures (played on the lower notes of a 32' pedal stop) of Franck's Chorale in B minor (Dorian-Jean Guillou) in an accurate, natural and controlled manner.
Our music ranges from very early music (12th century) to current rock and jazz (Nora Jones, Beck and Alicia Keys being recent plays).
Jordi Savall's reprise of his music for the movie - Touts les Matins du Monde - Dix Ans Apres, consists of diverse pieces by Marais, Lully etal. (early Fr. Baroque - Louis 14th era). This CD exemplifies the systems uncanny ability to reproduce tiny details like the ridges of a fingerprint sliding across the metal windings of a bass lute string in the midst of the thwack of a mallet against a bass drum, energetic bowing on a gamba and enthusiastic harpsichord playing (tracks 9 and 10 Charivari Marais, and Canarie, Lully).
(Speaking of Savall his SACD exploration La Folia is enlightening both in its musicality and sonic purity. For those put-off by the manneredness and sometimes melancholia of the Baroque I highly recommend La Folia for its edgy, raw and exhuberant Iberian energy.)
The system seems to respect the individual space of each instrument and performer. Instruments never seem crowded or inappropriately sized.
Transparency and definition are also very apparent on the new SACD reissues of the Rolling Stones Abko catalog. Mick Taylor's and Keith Richard's guitars on Get Yer Ya Yas Out have a wonderful steely edge that until this point, I've only heard live. This edge seems to be the attack of the finger, pick or nail on the string. This edge is apparent on other guitar material like Michael Hedges CD, Oracle. For instance on the track Ignition the late Hedges uses a technique where he aggressively damps the strings with side of his thumb/palm. The resulting low bass whump pressurizes the room.
Voice is reproduced with a warm, liquid presence. Cecilia Bartolis voice and piano accompaniment on her recording (SACD) of Vivaldi's "Sposa son disprezzata" produces chills and goosebumps in even less passionate listeners. Similarly, Lorraine Hunt-Liebersons Handel Arias (SACD) leaves me on the edge of my seat. The warm presence of this very emotional and cleanly engineered performance does not mask quiet intakes of breath at the head of several tracks. Elvis Costellos voice and Bill Frissells guitar on Deep Dead Blue are clean and hypnotic. I expect that the delicate ease of the higher treble nuances are due to the cloth tweeter that Alan Yun chose for the Sonata.
I've gone on and on about the speakers however the source - the Shanling CD t200 is proving to be a wonderful addition. Overall, my system is more than the sum of its parts - I'm into detail and revealing sound but, not at the expense of naturalness and the emotional experience to me signified by that time warp that occurs when I start listening to Howlin Wolf at 9am and find myself hours later, listening to Mahler -wondering what happened to the better part of a Saturday.
Comments questions (and affirmations that the Sonatas do not distract from the look of the room) welcome!
Line level preamp. With the KSL, this pair is to me, like khakis, a white button-down shirt and good shoes. Nothing noticeable up top but good footing ie: a little Krell slam.
Krell KST-100
I bought this with the KSL
Silverline Audio Sonata
In my experience, any speaker that renders piano, vocals and percussion with ease, realism, transparency and immediacy can reproduce all music well. Over the 18 months that I have owned them, the bottom end has become more extended and if anything, tighter. These do well with much less powerful tube amps but with even my small Krell there is ample slam and punch (assuming it's in the source material)
Harmonic Technology Magic
Between the tube stage of the Shanling and the KSL. No coloration - transparent, with appropriate detail.
Synergistic Research Kaleidescope II
Between the Solid State ouput of the Shanling and the KSL.
Harmonic Technology Magic - Balanced
Between the KSL and the KST-100. No coloration, very transparent and liquid sounding.
Shunyata Black Mamba 2 pr
- One for the KSL - One for the KST-100 When I tried these cables the blackenss of the soundstage was overwhelming. Seem to allow more space between instruments. Attaching these cables represented the lifting of another veil between me and the music.
JPS Digital
For the Shanling. The Shanling cable is not bad. Again - the lifting of a veil.
Monster Cable M 2.4 bi-wire
These were recommended to me by a longtime audio acquaintance as a 'sleeper'. They don't seem to do anything bad. No fatigue, grain or glare, plenty of detail and bass. One of these days, when I finish tweaking, I may start auditioning speaker cables but, why?
Panasonic Panasonic TH-50PX20U 50 in Viera
50 inch plasma screen TV. About as good as Plasma gets (in July when we bought it at least)...
Sony DVP-NC800
DVD/CD Changer
Home Made Interconnects Teflon Coated Silver Wire
Four wire twist - WBT RCA plugs. Between the DVD player audio and the KSA tape loop.
Sorry - I haven't visited here for a while - UPDATE: The Sonatas were replaced in 2008 by a pair of Silverline Sonatinas And a Velodyne DD-12 was added in 200.
I'm a woman too, and the first thing I'd see when walking into that room is the VIEW! Don't forget, when it comes to speakers, size matters. Please tell your wife that from this woman's perspective, the Sonata's are a fine piece of art. And if she isn't willing to listen, give me your address, and I'll be down to pick them up.
Those Sonata's are beautiful speakers, and IMO only lend to the artistry of the room. And that view!!! We have the Sonata II's, which dominate a room considerably more than the I's. Tell your wife that you restrained yourself and aimed for the middle of the Silverline product line. You really wanted those Grand La Folia's, didn't you? But alas, you chose the Sonata I's with her tastes in mind. This is your opportunity to make yourself out to be that rare 93db sensitive guy.
I'm using Acoustic Zen Hologram speaker cables, I agree...the Apogees need a large room and plenty of clean power.
I've just finished (except for room tweaks) a large room that they love...very sorry to say that no ocean view that I would love. My best shot would be to buy a lot on one of the great lakes I guess...LOL
09-23-04: Slipknot1 Thanks for the affirmation! Of course, I would expect nothing less from this crowd. A group of designers would elicit an entirely different response I suspect.
09-23-04: Prpixel Moving the speakers results in significant expansion and deepening of the soundstage as well as flatter bass response (the Sonatas have ports in the rear). Moving them is easy - slide a towel underneath the front and scoot them forward. BTW - I've found that placing them on 3 hockey pucks solidifies imaging somewhat.
BTW - you have the right idea. I'm holding the line at the speakers.
09-24-04: Soundnote Thanks - My agreement is that all equipment must go in cabinet. I guess I could just place the tt on the cabinet and see what happens. The unstated issue is LP storage - we have around 1000 cds which are stashed all over the house.
09-24-04: Gunbei Coming home is like a vacation sometimes - there's nothing like sitting on the deck with a glass of wine or typically a cold beer and watching the sun set (or the fog roll in). It even surpasses listening to music.
09-24-04: Robofet Thanks - the Apogee/Krell combo is hard to top but one must have space! The Sonatas are supposed to be great with SET. I'm afraid that given my ventures into volume that I might be disappointed.
09-24-04: Sogood51 Can't go wrong with view - What speaker cables are you using? I found that the Symos were best for me OCOS were good also.
09-24-04: Cytocycle Thanks - As we approached the house and storage I kept thinking of times I'd spent sailing. One has to be creative with storage. Our cabinet maker for instance 'found' space under the bar/work area for 400 cds (this number is increasing as we're gradually dumping the jewel boxes and putting them in sleeved binders -I can put 300 in binders in the same space as 100 in jewel boxes)
09-24-04: Raytheprinter Thank you very much - I'll have to put a turntable back in the system one day soon. Beleive it or not, SACD is pretty good though it still doesn't have the soul of analog. The tubes in the Shanling help. There's absolutely no glare or screechiness on strings which is one of my big gripes with CDs.
09-25-04: Rrosev Thanks for the tip about power management. I have two circuits now and am looking at different ways to deal with noise in the lines. I suspect there is a lot of RFI - the elimination of which will be another -veil lifting experience.
You are on the right track in thinking of ways to isolate your equipment from vibrations. Doing so should immediately firm up the bass. I also recommend thinking about cleaning up your power supply to your front end. I use PS Audio for such a purpose and find the sound of my Krell CD player to approximate the musicality of my Linn turntable. If your wife is like my wife, the purer and cleaner you make the sound of your system, the more forgiven she is about the aesthetics of your system.
real sweet!you have a beautiful room,system and view!!! you and your wife must get hours of enjoyment,and that view you have,,wow!!you have a fairly large room,your speakers look great!not overpowering at all,,have you ever heard a good TT in your system? i bet it would sound incredible!!also enjoyed your system description,
Beautiful room, system......view is priceless! Do you ever miss the KSA 250/ Duetta Signature combo? I once had Duettas with Rowland electronics......went down the SET pathway.....but occasionally daydream about the old days.
Lemmycaution, Just beautiful! With a room and a view like yours, I'd even be tempted to NOT have a music system. It looks like you're on vacation.
PrPixel, I think you should definitely start charging a fee for your Wife Audio Negotiation seminars with Audiogon members receving a discount. You give new meaning to WAF [Wife Acceptance Factor]. Meaning she'd better accept or else, heheh.
Great looking room and system. Speakers are just fine brought out into room, they don't ruin anything. Enjoy your house, system and the most important the music itself. I think you should set up your turntable. How about placing it on the equipment cabinet?
I'm glad to hear that you actually move the speakers out into the room for critical listening. When me and the wife lived in a small apartment she wanted me to keep the speakers against the wall when I wasn't "listening" to the system. Well, after lifting them into their positions about a half dozen times (I was using spikes on the carpet) I imformed her that either the speakers stay out in their positions or I was leaving. We're still together, so you can guess who won.
