System edited: The replacement of the NAD 1600 pre-amp with the C160 is probably the last change I will make. The most noticeable improvements are increased bass extension, tighter imaging, and a slightly wider and deeper sound stage. Even in my far from perfect listening (AKA living) room, I get to enjoy that sensation when the speakers disappear and all that is left is the music.

getamped April 23, 2012 14:04

System edited: After scouring the Interwebz for a high quality 1M to 2M RCA splitter in a 3' length with no success, I searched the forums and found a recommendation from Bdgregory that the Parts Express 1M to 2F version I'm now using worked for him. When they arrived this weekend I reconfigured the amps to stereo, rewired interconnects and speakers, and played some of my standard test pieces: Rod Stewart's take on "(I Know) I'm Losing You" from "Every Picture Tells A Story" and Crosby, Stills & Nash's "Wooden Ships" from their eponymous release. The difference from bridged, bi-wired was immediately obvious and in a good way. The edge of harshness in the treble with the volume at moderate levels (probably because the ~400WPC delivered in bridged mono is considerably more than the speakers are rated for) is gone. Mids are more present and detailed. Bass response is still deep and tight. Vocal separation is excellent; each voice in the chanting of "Mmm huh huh" in the first selection is clearly distinguishable; CSN's harmonies ring bell-like even when they are belting it out. "Clean distortion" sounds like an oxymoron, but there is no other way to describe the sound of Ron Wood's searing guitar work. From the gentle pick scratches at the beginning of "Wooden Ships" to Stephen Stills inspired guitar work and deep bass counterpoint, the depth and beauty of this recording truly comes to life. In case it wasn't clear, I am very pleased with where I am with the electronics. I don't plan to make any changes in the foreseeable future. Time to turn my attention to the vinyl project.

getamped May 09, 2011 15:52

System edited: I wanted to be able to bi-wire/bi-amp the Quads, so I decided to get a couple of C272s when available at a good price. I'm currently bi-wiring with the amps bridged to mono, but I want to go ahead and switch them back to stereo and bi-amp instead. The 1600's manual has a reference that it "has a low output impedance (600 ohms). It can drive several amplifiers connected in parallel..." I'm hoping that means I can use a Y cable to split each channel with R to L+R on one side and L to L+R on the other without signal degradation. Now I just have to find some nice quality Y cables, preferably some 3' 1 male to 2 male RCAs to avoid the adapter connection. I've also significantly upgraded the home theater side: BA VM60s as mains, BA VR920 center, BA VM50s for surrounds, Mirage FRX-S10 sub, Denon AVR-2311, and Denon DVD-2910. I supposed at some point I'll put up a thread for it in the Home Theater forum.

getamped April 29, 2011 16:52

The vinyl resurrection project will be going forward in the coming weeks. Once again WGH at AudioCircle was a tremendous help and pointed me to instructions, calibration tools and some tips on how to proceed. Frank Van Alstine also replied to an e-mail with a few extra tips. I'm feeling pretty confident about the prospects of dissecting my turntable and modifying it so that it reaches its full sonic potential. And, since it can only sound as good as the vinyl I put on the platter, I now have a Spin Clean Record Washer MKII to get the most out of my LPs.

getamped October 22, 2010 14:50

I've settled in to a comfortable arrangement now that seems to provide the best imaging and soundstage given the limitations of the room dimensions. I had the speakers toed in originally and decided to try them positioned exactly on axis, parallel to each other and perpendicular to the back wall. I was surprised by the extent of the improvement in overall sound quality, particular the coherence of vocals in the center of the soundstage. I wish I could move the recliner and couch back by about three feet, but the wall seems to be unwilling to yield at all. And while my family and friends (most of them anyway) consider me to be a bit over obsessive regarding my efforts to achieve a little piece of audio nirvana, it turns out that I'm not willing to move (yet!) to try to improve my sound quality.

One major improvement with the new arrangement is that the laptop I use to play other digital media, typically music videos in AVI, DivX, MPG, WMV, M2V, VOB and other formats, is now close enough to the DacMagic to connect with a standard USB cable (less than 15'). I expected a huge difference in sound quality and got it. The headphone out jack on most laptops is a relatively poor source and the one on this particular laptop was no exception. I use CyberLink PowerDVD v7 to play the video files; it seems to work well with just about every codec I've run into. So I'm now using all three of the DacMagic's inputs (laptop, SqueezeBox 3, NAD T534) and the toslink out goes to the HT receiver.

My next project is going to be some tweaking of my turntable. Right now it is 100% stock and I would like to do the highly recommended outboard power supply a la Frank Van Alstine. I've got a parts list thanks to WGH over at AudioCircle, but I'm probably going to need some guidance. I have some EE friends that will help with the actual construction but a schematic is probably going to help the most. Anyone out there who has done this? I'll definitely be going back to AudioCircle to ask WGH if he has any specific instructions.

getamped October 13, 2010 14:51

Chazz, thanks for your comments. I'll have to keep an eye out for some large stones that I can get for cheap or maybe borrow just to see the difference. They will certainly have to be hefty to be able to compress the carpet enough to be stable.

The sub is only used for TV/movies. I generally don't use the HT system at all for music, including music videos, even if the source is cable (Palladia, for example) or the laptop. I mute it and just use the line out to the main stereo. I have been looking at replacing the sub anyway and probably will if I stumble across a bargain. The same goes for the Yamaha receiver as well, but I'm not as concerned about that aspect of my gear right now.

Which means I'll mostly be focused on making small adjustments for a while, enjoy the music, and develop a good understanding of what works and what doesn't as I tweak things.

getamped October 09, 2010 02:28

Getamped
I am sure Ruth would approve.Quads are along with a few speakers (some paradigms,NHT's and few others)that punch above their weight.Strange a electrostatic company hires some engineers that come up with some real winners (I use the 11L that are self powered in second system).I tell friends who will listen (and some do I worked in a shop that sold B&W,Mirage,Infinity,etc etc) that Quads and NHT are great values for most and if stepping up a bit Totem from Canada is great (I would mention Usher but again a price leap for a Taiwanese manufacturer that get's great box designs form Dan D'Applito then steals designs of others).But you have great speakers at price that makes you a value conscious music lover not and audio-phool.Ruth would be proud.Oh BTW yeas by all means use paving stone or something if you have pine floors.And one piece in that HTiB that should be swapped especially if you use it for music is the sub.Cambridge and Aperion (read Tone review on their 8" model) used are great deals for subs.
Chazz

chazzbo October 09, 2010 00:39

System edited: Changed the layout of my living room and updated pictures to match. Imaging is pretty good although I'm sure that I will continue to make small adjustments to speaker placement in the coming weeks. I still have to do some cable management since so far I've pretty much just thrown a couple of sheepskins on top of the mess to hide it. Just in case anyone is curious (only two comments, but this thread has had over 2,300 views!), the home theater components are fairly modest: Yamaha HTR-5730 receiver that was part of a HTiB and YST-SW010 sub that came with it, BA HD7 fronts, 404V center, and HD5 surrounds. A line-out feeds the main system and I general use them together for movies.

getamped October 08, 2010 16:24

The amps were getting a bit hotter than I liked, so I used a DakiOm DIY tweak to create some vibration dampeners that provide better air circulation. I can't really say that the vibration dampening results in anything I can hear, but the amps are definitely running cooler. High tech materials used? Newspaper and packing tape! I finally found a use for all the issues of USA Today I get during my regular work trips. Twenty sheets thick, rolled fairly tight, covered with a layer of packing tape and colored with a black Sharpie.

My next project will be to reorient everything in the living room to try to get some additional separation between the speakers and hopefully expand the optimal listening area to include part of the couch. The room is an unusual shape and not very large (~12'x16'), half hexagonal at one end with 3 windows, one in each of the three sides, open at the other end to the dining room, with french doors that lead into an office on the wall with the shelving unit. I'm hoping that I can move the right Quad in front of the left french door (I don't ever use it; there's a crate of LPs there now), shift the TV stand and other speakers enough so that the left Quad can move enough to allow the end of the couch to fit into the end of the room under one of the windows, and the recliner to slide into the new sweet spot.

I'm still not sure whether I need to do anything about how the Quads are supported. Right now the plinth spikes go through the wall to wall carpeting into the pine flooring underneath. I don't know if there is any improvement to be gained by putting something heavy on the carpet to act as a base for the speakers. It would have to be very heavy to compress the carpet enough to actually be stable. Anyone else have to deal with carpet?

getamped October 04, 2010 22:34

System edited: Added the Koss headphones since they are essential for late night listening. My downstairs neighbors are very tolerant of my musical mania but there are limits. And comfort is an integral part of the experience, so the Lazyboy is a valued audio component. When I'm not on the road at client sites, I work at home and pretty much spend 99% of my time in this chair. The laptop and 2nd LCD panel give me plenty of screen real estate for dealing with mutiple documents and the music stand is perfect for managing my notes and other hard copy documents. I usually put the Squeezebox web interface on the Visio HDTV and magnify it 200% so that it's easy to work with from across the room.

getamped September 23, 2010 14:22

System edited: Added the Cambridge Audio DacMagic and took some new photos of the final configuration.

getamped September 23, 2010 01:35

@Jaxwired: Thanks for the comments. I read through some of your other posts here and I like your positive and enthusiastic approach.

My relationship with Ruth and her family spans over three decades and gets a bit complicated at points, but we were only intimately involved during the last year of her life. She gave me a tremendous gift by sharing that most precious time with me. I wish she could have heard "her" sound system the way she imagined it.

In some respects my choice of the NAD gear is based on some nostalgia. When I was 13 or 14 the family went to visit relatives in Texas, and I distinctly remember listening to Jethro Tull's A Passion Play through my uncle's stereo which was based on an NAD integrated amp and a Nakamichi tape deck. I was listening through headphones and it was transformative. I had no idea before then that music could sound like that.

I was initially going to try to get the same Denon receiver that I found for Karen, but didn't find it at the price point I wanted. Then I saw the NAD amps, checked out the specs, and decided that it was worth giving them a try. I am so glad that I did! Even in my decidely less than ideal listening space, this system is surpassing my expectations. I am hearing detail and texture in familiar recordings that I simply did not know existed before. And I am no longer of the opinion that high bitrate MP3 files are an adequate replacement for CD quality audio. For low volume listening they are okay, but I can now hear the bit of harshness and brittleness in them that shows up (particularly in cymbals and upper piano octaves) when I turn the volume up. By comparison, the FLAC files I've created from my CDs are clean, clear, tight and maintain their listenability (is that a word?) even at high volume.

I just bought a Cambridge Audio DacMagic to add to the system, so I'm over my initial $2,000 budget by just under $300 (including shipping, tax, etc. for all components). Probably more than Ruth's frugal sensibilities would have permitted, but obviously waaaaaay less than many (most?) of the systems that I've seen described here.

getamped September 20, 2010 17:44

Beautiful story. It's great that you shared a love of hifi and music with your wife, that's fairly rare. I have to drag my wife kicking and screaming to listen to one song.

Very nice use of funds. I'm a big NAD fan. That vintage NAD stuff is excellent. I'm sure it sounds fanstastic!

jaxwired September 18, 2010 00:40

Which brings me to my current system. I love the Quads. They sounded great in the showroom and even better at Karen's house. I was certainly happy that Ruth's vision had been realized, but I really wanted that same sound in my own listening space. When I saw that they were for sale again by the same vendor (Lanemart here and on e-bay), and I had some extra cash from some consulting work, I bought them and started thinking about what else I would need to bring out their full potential.

As soon as I hooked the speakers, it was obvious that my old Yamaha receiver was not going to do. When the NAD 214s came up on e-bay (one seller, sequential serial numbers), they looked like just right amount of power in their bridged, mono configuration. When I first got them set up, I used the Yamaha pre-outs, so nothing changed except the amps. An amazing transformation in the depth of the sound field and amount of texture. And, of course, available volume. As I turned it up, everything stayed crisp, tight, clean, just louder.

Because I had other plans for the Yamaha, I looked for a pre-amp, ideally one that had a tuner and phono stage. The NAD 1600 or 1700 looked like the right fit and I ended up with a 1600 for sale here. It did not disappoint; the tuner and phono stages are excellent quality, although I primarily listen to digital music files through the Squeezebox.

I got the NAD T 534 on e-bay primarily because it was such a bargain ($75, I was the only bidder). I use HDMI to connect it to my Visio SV370XVT HDTV, toslink to connect to my other home theater receiver, and the standard stereo RCAs to the 1600.

The only thing I am considering adding to the system is an external DAC, probably the Cambridge Audio DacMagic. Although I am a bit curious about the DakiOm products.

getamped September 17, 2010 20:44

Not long after I wrote the previous story, I followed it up with this:

I've told the story about her speakers and our search here in the US many times now, but the ending has changed and I wanted to relate that here.

First, it's worth noting that Ruth was aware (if not always mindful) of her tendency to express her opinions strongly. In this case, she believed that the Quad speakers and Denon amplifier we had decided on would sound great at her sister Karen's house on Saratoga Lake. But she was reluctant to say anything because these are not exactly unobtrusive speakers and she didn't want to force them into her sister's living space. The subject of the speakers came up again shortly after her death and I told Karen that Ruth had wanted to buy the stereo and put it in Karen's living room, but was worried about being too pushy. A day or so later, while we were going through some of Ruth's things, Karen told me that she wanted to get the stereo and asked if I could help her put it together.

And so the saga continues.

The speakers are Quad 22L2 floor standing models. They are connected to the amplifier using 12AWG, high-purity, oxygen-free, 87 strand copper cabling.

The amplifier is the Denon DRA-697CI.

The primary music source is the Squeezebox (formerly by Slim Devices, now owned by Logitech).

And for power protection, a Furman PL-8 power conditioner and light module.

The Squeezebox connects over a WiFi network to an old laptop running the SqueezeServer software. A 1Terabyte external hard disk holds the music files, many of which are from Ruth's personal collection of Latino, African, Afro-latino, Reggae, Rock and Classical music that she so notably loved.

The results are everything that Ruth and I had hoped for. The speakers sound phenomenal in the open living space and the Denon amplifier provides exceptionally clean, distortion free sound, even at the upper limits of its power output. This system will be an enduring legacy to Ruth's love of beauty in music that will provide many years of enjoyment when family and friends gather together at Saratoga Lake.

getamped September 17, 2010 16:46

Just over a year ago I wrote this after Ruth lost her battle with lung cancer:

One of the interests that Ruth and I shared is the enjoyment of music but the old school way: big, high fidelity, floor-standing speakers with a really good stereo (you know, 2 channel, left - right) amplifier. Of the many things she had to leave behind in NZ, Toots was the most difficult, followed by her Mission loud speakers. Rather than sell them for a small fraction of what they were worth, she gave them to a dear friend knowing they would be appreciated.

When she got back to the US, one of our missions/hobbies was to investigate the options for replacing her stereo. It was impossible to find the same Mission speakers, so we would go to audio stores and listen to what they had, but still couldn't find anything that approached the clarity and precision of the Missions. We listened to some Paradigm speakers that were supposed to be exceptional values for the money and Ruth was completely unimpressed. She asked to listen to the most expensive speakers in the store which she rated "so-so" at best.

Finally, we got a recommendation to try to find Quad speakers as they might be similar in tone and quality. We were able to listen to them in Schenectady in an unlikely neighborhood and from the moment we started playing the test CDs I could see that look on her face of wonder and awe that music could be so beautiful. The store itself was a bit of a disaster: they weren't set up to properly demonstrate the equipment, the cables were an incomprehensible rat's nest, but the speakers sounded heavenly. Until we reached a particular piano passage during which we heard some very unpleasant distortion. We played that part of the CD again and clearly heard a buzzing or vibration that didn't belong. The salesperson switched the left and right speaker cables and this time we heard the sound again, but from the other channel. So Ruth got right up to the speaker and listened as we played it again and this time said that it sounded as if it was coming from below the speaker. It turns out that the plinth spikes were not fully screwed in and tightened (on both speakers) and would vibrate at a specific frequency. A little fiddling with them and the rest of the music played and sounded just as it should.

Unfortunately, after all that she never did actually buy the speakers because she felt that she didn't have the proper space to put them in. But I think it was comforting for her to know that we had found them so that they were an option if she should ever have a place for them.

getamped September 17, 2010 16:43

How do you like your Quads? I researched a LOT of speakers over the years but had very few opportunities to listen.

roytex September 16, 2010 20:31