a. accomplished tt + phonostage set up. currently have a lofi rega p3 and inexpensive phono preamp, transparent ic's to vtl preamp
b. high quality vibration rack (santa, pls take note).
i listen to primarily classical music, mostly chamber music and solo keyboard. i clear 2 -3 hours of uninterrupted listening most evenings 5 days/week.
will move to the sasha when the v2 comes out, no doubt with a silk tweeter LOL ... or move to another mfr in the future. the wp8 issues of over the somewhat energized top end, slowish bottom, and minor coherence issues - were all improved with the high quality cdp (k-01), better cables (the TA ref +mm2 ). i have also auditioned a full loom of TA ref XL +mm2 which improved the presentation of the speakers considerably. moving to amps such as the vtl 400 or pass labs recent xa series will probably my next step, ie before the cable change.
Transparent Audio (TA) SC REF+ mm2 tech
upgraded from the TA ultra mm1 to the REF level+mm2 tech. see my meandering review of the mm2 tech on this site when you have the patience LOL.
Pass Labs x350.5 stereo amp
1st 40 wpc in class A, i rarely move out of class A, perhaps on some peaks if the loudest passages of full orchestral works. has performed flawlessly overall.
TA TA ref+mm2 balanced IC
mm2 is significantly better than the orig mm tech.
vtl 6.5 tube hybrid preamp
superb. using NOS early 1960s bugle boy amperex tubes inside now. see my review of this preamp on this site. simply a rock solid performer of excellence.
Purist Audio Design 20th Anniv Contego Power Cord
power cord on the vtl preamp. excellent top to bttm balance and very quiet. this replaced a transparent XL PC (m1 version)
TA Ref + mm2 tech, balanced IC
btwn cdp and preamp. this upgrade from Ref mm1 to mm2 tech offered noted improvement.
Esoteric CDP : K-01
IMO, the PAD PC contributes greatly to this component & the system's overall presentation, adding some weight overall, especially at the top end without the thinning i noticed in other PCs.
Purist Audio (PAD) Power cord Canorus PC w/ oyaide M1F1 termin
on the cdp: this PAD did everything well from top to bottom and allowed a presentation of more fullness at the upper end without over-energizing or dampening the highs. slighterly tighter presentation at the bottom without loosing texture and fullness, greater transient clarity as well . very quiet background. a noticeable improvement from the excellent PAD PC i now have on my preamp
Transparent Audio P8
basic power conditioner, 8 outlets, 3 different filters, including 2 for digital components (unused) . Not current limiting. plugged into a dedicated circuit.
VPI rcm 16.5
aha -getting some good use from my bose noise canceling headphones (just for hearing protection, i dont play music thru them)
mert: noted your comments are your "own opinion" regarding the vtl6.5/pass amp mating. but you still have not answered my direct question: have you had the vtl 6.5 in your system with a pass labs x.5 amp or system similar (with a pass x.5 amp) to judge the pass amp/vtl 6.5 pre pairing? if not, then you should hold NO opinion of it and should not be offering your advice concerning it. it's that simple. if you want to share someone else's opinion, then you should be responsible to the source and write (for example) "nelson pass has commented xyz about mating his x.5 amps to the vtl 6.5 preamp." got it?
first of all I am not worried about credibility issues since I am not a seller here and not trying to sell any gear. Plus this is my ''OWN'' opinion about Pass Labs-VTL 6.5 mating. I just kindly wanted to share with you but you felt an offense. X250.5-350.5. Yes There is a sonic difference however X350.5 is the more biased Class AB derivitive of X250.5 which is 10-15 watt more in class A mode. This will be important if your speakers are difficult to drive. Another point, I have made my Boulder-Pass assumption after having tested not in MY setup but loan gear that I had: Gryphon Antileon Sig. Pre-Power, Boulder 1060-1010, Pass Labs X-1, 2.5 pre X600.5 monos, Viola pre-mono, Accuphase A-45-C2400. Compared to these machines your VTL is a bit underclass. Sorry. I tell you another point: there is another right way to find out either you are right with Pass amp or wrong is check with diyaudio-Passlabs forum. Even you may contact with Nelson directly and ask him to evaluate your system components.Maybe my credibility is lacking:) but not the Nelson's. :) However he is going to ask you why not using new Pass Preamp xp-10 or 20? :) You are using someone's design (Nelson Pass)who hates tubes and mating with a tube preamp. I am a little bit speechless and can't go further. Good Luck!
mert: i'll be blunt - if you havent personally heard the vtl 6.5 together with any pass labs amp, and specifically a x350.5 (which does not have exactly the same sonics of the x250.5 that you owned) then your advice and opinion in the matter of a VTL 6.5 preamp + pass x350.5 amp mating/synergy is groundless & therefore worthless. i have no problem with you offering comments regarding the many components and cables you rotate thru your system, but who are you to suggest a preamp change from one component to another when you have NO experience with one of the components within the context of a specific audio system? i wonder how many other "suggestions" you have made to others that lack the merit of direct experience. by doing this sort of thing, your credibility is lacking.
Actually I never heard VTL 6.5 together with Nelson Pass amplifier. I can make comments about the gear I am familiar. In your case I am an expert on Pass amps and know how to take the most out of them. As long as cables concerned I am always in state of upgrading and changing the things since I have quite good cable pool during these days. I have full setup of JPS aluminatas and PAD Anniversary cables. Transparents REF MM2 have tough competition, in other words:)
mert: noted your meaning of single ended. thanks for your comments. have you actually had the vtl 6.5 preamp in your system? did the 6.5 have well matched high quality nos tubes when you auditioned it? did you have your TA mm2 cables at the time, which you know is a substantial upgrade in presentation than the mm1 cables? any audition of a component with TA mm1 cables against another component with mm2 cables would most likely be pointless unless the results revealed that item A +mm1 cables completely outclassed item2+mm2.
I mean by single ended not the inputs of the amp, but as a design as nelson argues: single ended solid state, what I understand is an amp, has the concept of single ended tube designs but uses transistors instead of tubes. That is typical Pass sound, neither tube nor Solid State. Since I have experienced a lot with Pass amps I can say best result will be for Pass amp if it is used with Boulder series preamps or similar in sound character. In your case, I know your amp, speakers, and cables:) Your weakest link is your preamp. However this is my weakest link as well:)
hi mert, thanks for your suggestions. i am familiar with the excellence of mexcel/esoteric combos, but teac/arcolink dealers did not make a loaner PC available for an audition. i have zero tolerance for this type of customer service at the high end. Too many other equally excellent mfrs do make auditions happen. i am happy with PAD on the cdp. in my system currently, it contributes more to the overall presentation on the cdp than on my x350.5 . i auditioned several PCs on the x350.5 - the results netted less in terms of distinctive improvements, more in terms of subtle sonic differences. i will reconsider again after a cdp change (perhaps to the dcs puccini or wadia 780i) and better overall component isolation.
as to replacing the vtl 6.5 preamp with a boulder610 - not in my lifetime! IMO, that would be a significant step downward in overall presentation quality. fyi: the 1010 is 40% more expensive than the vtl 6.5. i have no experience with it. i may look into the 1010 when i am ready to upgrade the preamp, if ever, but i am in no rush. the vtl 6.5 is wonderful. in general i have not been impressed with boulder's somewhat forward midrange or the presentation of the extremes.i have not had any boulderin my system, so my comments are within the context of other systems largely unfamiliar to me. do you have hands-on experience with the vtl 6.5 and 7.5 mk2 preamps in your system?
fyi - the pass x.5 series amps are balanced and single ended, they are not solely single ended. in fact, many feel they present better in balanced mode. in conversation, pass labs has suggested to me that the x350.5 performs better run balanced. the vtl 6.5 preamp, which is a fully balanced design, works exceptionally well with pass labs amps. thanks again.
Nice setup, similar to mine. There are a few things that you may follow: if you want most from PAD cable, try on Poweramp! Since you have esoteric, logical powercord is Acrolink Mexcel since internal wiring of esoteric made by Acrolink as well. If finaces allow replace VTL with Boulder 810 or 1010 which works together indeed good since Pass is Single Ended S.S.(single ended amp but with transistors yields some sort of hybrid sound) As you know I run this combination in past and satisfied.
hi daisiu - your friend is correct, the pass labs xa series (no point 5) is not a good choice for the w/p8. even pass labs agrees that the 350.5 or 600.6 is the correct choice. however, the new xa.5 series is another solution for 4ohm speakers, which is exactly what the w/p's are. from what i understand from the folks at pass labs, who are wonderful (call or email them directly): the x350.5 and x600.5 will have somewhat greater bttm end speed and command than the xa100.5, but less overall top to btm liquidity and seemlessness. the xa.5 series presents slightly warmer than the x.5 series (but still very much within neutral). the xa.5 is supposed to have greater textural and timbral accuracy. i would expect the highs would be a little richer and fuller too, which can be seen as the perfect compliment to the w/p8 top energy tweeter abundance. for accoustic music, i am under the impression that the xa.5 is a superb choice for the w/p8 provided there is excellent upstream synergy (an overly tuby source may not be ideal with the ax.5 series).i prefer to hear as much nuance as the performer presents in the recording, i am not a fan of bringing a very warm/colored/lush presentation to a performance if it is not in the recording.
IMO the w/p8s are quite rewarding, but careful consideration to upstream gear + cables +pcs will greatly influence sound.i am not there yet with my cdp, obviously. i do see the "speakers+sc cables+amp" as a subgroup within the system. careful amp choice is perhaps more critical for the w/p8 than for the sophia2. if you are considering the x.5, the choice between x600.5 and 350.5 comes down to room size,how loud you listen, and to some degree, what you listen to. i listen near field within in a 12ft x 20ft x 9.5 ceiling room,ie there is 6 ft of empty room behind my listening chair. i listen at med volume levels.all of my friends want the volume 6 db higher. for small ensemble classical music, my x350.5 amp rarely goes out of the 40 wpc class A. for large orchestral works, obviously the med-loud sections move the amp into a/b mode. i would venture that 80% of my listening time is spent in the 40wpc class A mode. pass labs has suggested to me the xa100.5 as the choice for my w/p8, but in a small room etc, the xa60.5 may be fine, but better safe than sorry. hope this helps. again, email pass labs directly.
pass labs preamp: i have not heard or seen the new pass xp preamps. there is no point for me to explore other preamps, my vtl 6.5 is a keeper until i move up to the $15-20K range, which i dont anticipate for several years. i have to address the cdp , t/t, rack etc first. when i do, no doubt the vtl7.5 mk 2 (or mk 3 by then) will no doubt be on my short list. it is simply superb. cheers.
I'm assembling a system of my own currently with quite a few similarities. My question is: a friend of mine who's selling a pair of W/P8s told me that "The Pass XA-series of amplifiers are designed for stable 8-ohm or higher loads, the WATT dips to below 2ohm at certain frequencies.The WP8s work better with the X-.5 series amps like the X-600.5 monoblocks." Thats putting me off the XA, and made me look at the 350.5 like yours.
Do you agree with that? Also what do you think of new Pass XP-10/20 preamps?
hi hce4: i did not audition the vtl mb450 when i went with the pass x350.5. at the time, i was not exploring a tube amp because of issues of heat and largely concerns with bottom end speed+command of tube amps within my budget back then, which was $9k tops.fyi - i already owned the x350.5 prior my speaker upgrade to the w/p8 from b&w 803's. on the other hand, i will strongly consider a tube phonostage when the time comes. i do adore my vtl 6.5 preamp.
hi lightminer - i too am very curious as to the oversall differences! from what i have read and the few conversations from those who own various xa.5 models, i anticipate an overall smoother/seemless presentation, much more finesse and emotional wt at the top end, and perhaps a slightly softer grip on the bottom (a minor drawback IMO, but perhaps the a small price to pay for the pluses). the x350,5 only gives the first 40w in class A. i think pushing thru 100 in class A from the get-go should have a distinctive effect of presentation with my speakers. but i will not know until an audition in a very similar system... or in home, which would be the goal.
I ask because I see much of the X series, and the 350.5 seems to be the one to get, but as a current Aleph owner the XA is the series that interests me - just so expensive! So I'm curious for a long term X350.5 listener to say how they are different. And, of course, the X350.5 runs in Class A for quite a while, so it would make it harder to hear the difference. I love the Aleph, though, so, for example, am considering the XA60 - many fewer watts.
System edited: in 2008: > upgraded SC + ICs to TA ref+mm2. significant leap in transparency and musical involvement. > added the PAD 20th anniv contego PC to the cdp, significantly improved overall presentation especially in top end fullness/richness, blacker background. > Added amperex 1960s bugleboy 12au5 to the vtl preamp, introduced greater tactile/emotional(!) presence mostly in the mids and a bit more in the highs.
hi lightminer - no, i will not be upgrading the amp to the xa100.5 until next year. i need to audition them fully in my system (i have not done this yet) as well as a few other candidates in the $15-$18 range (list).i will probably upgrade or mod the cdp first.
Hi: I highley recommend the Marigo Audio Andromeda power cords (I use them throughout my system). They come in two different tunings, KX or TX, depending on the power supply they are connected to. Ron hedrich will send you one of each for a 30 day in home audition. They retail for $2000, which is in your level of performance (IMHO). Best regards, Jeff Lazicki
thanks for the input. i have Synergistic PCs on my long list to audion for my cdp and preamp. with regard to employing the same company's cables + PCs throught the system... i dont buy into that thinking when it comes to PCs. i view the PCs as very component specific and an excellent opportunity to address a desired adjustment to a specific component most easily. i am more likely to agree to the advantages of all same-company ICs + SC. I will also look into KSosna and Prana wire. for my system, and specifically the vtl pre and esoteric, most PCs that have been suggested are elrod, purist, shunyata (which i have audtioned the python model, non vx, very nice) TA (i have the XL on it now, but this may move to the preamp). i have also auditioned cardas and a few from nordost. thanks kindly for your suggestions.
Nice system. With regards to PCs, there is an on-going thread on the new Synergistic line of cables with specific recommendations regarding which specific PC is best for specific components - the contributors are very enthusiastic. They also believe that having an entire system wired with Synergistic is the way to go. I have not heard their new cables so I cannot personally comment on them. I have heard the Kubala Sosna Emotion PCs and was really impressed. Another cable to consider is Prana wire. I met Joe Cohen at CES this year and he was very helpful regarding questions I had regarding his cables. I believe he will let you try his cables if you contact him. His cables are very well respected/reviewed and few ever show up for sale on Audiogon, although there may be a couple (PC and speaker cable) listed now.
