auditioned the speakers with the amplifier in dealer showroom and it sounded perfect to my liking. it sounded warm, transparent, lush midrange, very detailed bass. now build the same setup at home, with same interconnect and speaker cables. only difference is dealer uses Marantz cd player and i am using Meridian. set it up in bedroom and first impression is slightly bright than in dealer showroom. just move it to living room (open area, no sidewalls) and it sounds unbearable bright. no bass, lean midrange, bright although never sharp and harsh. my living room is almost identical to dealer's showroom (also very open and no sidewalls). still dont understand why there is such a big difference.
Your comments on the sub are interesting and my observations on bass response are similar when the listening area is up against a back wall. It seems to put a hump before the deep bass.
My new listening room is a large rectangular living/dining combo 16wx22lx9h. My seating is at the halfway point of the long dimension with the dining area behind me. The bass is remarkably even and smooth. At first I thought it wasn't punchy enough but after continual listening it seems to be more accurate as all the musical information is there. Its just not as punchy or should I say boomy.
I have since read in Hi-Fi+ magazine that this is the ideal listening environment.
have borrowed a velodyne dd15 for home test. i use passion integre preamp output for the subwoofer. using the frequency sweep of dd15, it shows that micro utopia be has a dip at 60hz but hump at 40hz. so in my room at 35hz, it's about -3db only and -6db@30hz. the velodyne can fill and smooth out the gap between 15hz-40hz without problem. the interesting thing is i just can not hear the difference with or without turning on the dd15, though the difference is pretty clear on frequency response. i believe in a big room with far field listening and high volume, the difference will be very obvious with sub turning on. however in my relatively small room and low volume, it makes too little difference to identify. conclusion? i dont need a sub in my room. this is not a bad thing because the dd15 costs quite substantial. maybe next or last step is to try a power conditioner like ep15a.
thanks for the reply. yes the meridian 508.24 is considered as pretty old at this moment. the strength of this cdp is good extension of both frequency extreme, and very detailed yet a little bit analogue sounding. i have been looking at audio aero tube cdp for quite some time and i believe adding a bit more analogue will make the sound more pleasant. however the high price tag is the major problem. so the current decision is to make good use of the meridian until i upgrade to dvd-a or bluray player. that will take a few years or maybe longer i guess.
I myself am impressed with the visual statement your room makes. With the exception of the sofas, very modern and inviting. Three modern Barcelona chairs would really compliment your decor.
Nice job on the sound panels on the back wall. It compliments your room very well. It inspires me that sound panels can look attractive, especially in a modern room.
A LCD flat panel would be a good choice for your video choice, particularly because it has a softer plastic screen instead of a hard glass screen like the plasma's have.
Now the big question for me:
Does the Meridian still hold up well against the new breed of cdp's?
I have a YBA Design integrated, and while not in the same league as the Passion, it should exhibit a similar sound-scape. You have enlightened us on your journey though integrated amps, so if you can now express your opinion on this older Meridian cdp. Especially, its synergy with YBA, in light of the fact that I have an entry YBA integrated.
System edited: CRT TV is already sold and removed. the empty space in the middle between two speakers seems to add quite some air to the sound. though bass sounds ok at this moment, still looking to add a subwoofer, either Velodyne DD15 or SPL-1500R, since always dreaming to have a full range setup. exactpower ep15a is in my dream too.
a short update on virtual dynamics nite II powercord which i just got. as you can see i have the ESP essence for CD player. it works excellent on CD player. both end of frequency extended significantly. it's also very quiet with dark background. however the same powercord doesnt work well on my amp. it makes passion integre sharper and more lively on treble and more lean on bass (especially considering the bass for YBA and JM Lab is already quite lean). so i need a different powercord for amp. based on suggestions, i got the virtual dynamics nite II, which does exactly the opposite. on passion integre, it produced much bigger, fuller and weighted bass. the treble is also slightly restrained which makes system warmer and forgiving. also, the virtual dynamics powercord has ultra black background. the slightly noisy YBA amp needs exactly this. i would suggest anyone who using YBA amp to try this powercord, if you like YBA sound but feel it's a bit lively and lean on bass.
today tried mcintosh 6900 and Jadis DA80. the mcintosh 6900 has good bass slam (as good as jeff rowland concerto). the bass is also not as tight as concerto so i would guess it's good for jmlab speakers. however, the imaging, midrange and treble extension all can not match or in the same league as concerto and passion integre. it also sounds very solid state like (sharp and bright).
the Jadis DA80 is a strange amp. it sounds very dynamic and powerful but bass is very vague and lean. treble is similar as passion integre which is well extended but somewhat a bit sharp and bright. the midrange is not bad, comes with lots of definitions, smooth and body. quite similar as the midrange of concerto but with slight more tube warmth and smooth. however i would definitely prefer the midrange with more warmth.
only my own feeling which may not be correct or comply with reviews...
Liuhao, great system! I'm glad to read that the acoustical treatment in your room made your system sound much better. I also micro utopia be (a lovely speaker indeed).
if you are looking at integrated amps, i heard pathos TT with the micros, and it sounded excellent. from your description, this might fit the bill.
The room is looking very good and no doubt things are sounding much better. I was happy to see your changes today. Working systems into living spaces is tough and one has to find the right balance.
Have you given much thought to putting absorption on the wall behind the TV and your LCD can sit on a stand on your entertainment unit. I bet that midrange you enjoy would open up that much more.
If all the panels are imposing, one trick I use is placing art (african masks and other enthic or suitable small scale and thin objects on the panels. Therefore, the panels act as a backdrop to the art. I attach them mostly with a thumbtack and some fishing wire, looks great IMO. Oh yeah, let your wife pick the pieces.
If you want to hang some nice heavy curtains for your slider doors that would be helpful as well, unless you prefer the clean sleek look (which it looks like you might). Great Job, and I hope you're closer to the music.
currently trying jeff rowland concerto (class-D amp) integrated amp with my speakers. comparing to YBA passion, the concerto produces more powerful bass and more restrained treble. this makes the system more forgiving for less good recorded CDs. the concerto also has more focused imaging.
however comparing to YBA passion, the concerto is somewhat more solid state like. the midrange is dryer, heavier and harder. the YBA is more engaging with juicy, elegant, lighter and breaktaking midrange which adds the "sunday afternoon tea" kinda emotion.
based on the comparision so far, YBA passion sounds more tube like especially in the midrange. concerto sounds still more like a solid state amp with thicker and heavier midrange.
only wish YBA passion had very slightly more sound weight, and more powerful bass. any amps sound like between YBA passion and concerto?
I have to admit when I saw the before pics I was [retty skeptical on the sound you were getting, you did a nice job on your room, I bet it sounds great now.
after adding the ecophon master alpha panels (40mm compressed fiber glass wrapped with Guidford of Marine FR701) on the rear wall and shaggy carpet, the change of sound is dramatic. basically the room is much quieter. echoes are very much reduced although not eliminated. i believe if i add acoustic panel on ceiling, there will be no eaches at all. the treble now becomes very smooth and gental. midrange is breathtaking. the biggest change is bass. now i understand what jmlab claimed "warm and detailed bass". what's more, i am able to hear (or feel) the low bass around 40-60hz which i never realized before. so far i am very satisfied with the sound. will update again when i replace the CRT TV with 37" LCD two months later (bcos i am waiting for the launch of a particular model of 1080p 37". thanks for all the suggestions.
System edited: ok couple of new pictures showing what i have done in past weeks (and can not be undone). the panels are called Ecophon Master A. 4cm thickness ready made compressed fibreglass board. each measured 60cm x 60cm. i wrapped them using Guidford of Marine FR701 fabric and craft glue, then sticked them (12 pieces) to rear wall using liquidnail adhesive. rest 8 pieces i placed them here and there in front. i have to admit that to find a solution that is both accepted by me and wife is extremely difficult. was planning to stick some panels on ceiling but there are some downlight installed on false ceiling. havent figured out ways. wall to wall carpet is on the way. LCD TV is on the way to replace sony 29" CRT. the change of sound is dramatic so far. will update with more pictures.
Liuhao, > Those Mondo Traps are designed so you can fill up your room with 'em. I'd suggest EchoBusters if want more absorption with fewer panels, also, you can call and speak with someone directly - maybe they could go online (@ A'gon) & look @ photos of your space? > -Bruce > Ps. Post some pics when you get it all figured out.
appreciate the info. i careful read and think them in great details.
my carpet is coming in next week. i know that those super shaggy one works better but wife prefers thinner loop type for easy clean bcos it wont trap dust deep inside. however, i will put layer of foam like underlying below the carpet.
i also got some construction type sound absorption panel. they are known as Ecophon Master Alpha/A, made of compressed fibreglass but lower density than MondoTraps. the absorption mainly takes effect from above 500hz. i am trying them on different location of the room to evaluation the result before i fix them perminantly.
so far, i found Mondotraps are pretty mid-high frequency reflective due to its very high density. i believe it will be good to fix bass boom. in my case i have tried it on rear wall. it indeed reduced some mid-low bass boomy but overall sound was as bright as bare wall.
for Ecophon Master Alpha, i have try them on rear wall and side of balcony. just like Bruce said, it makes the sound pretty warm and the treble is greatly reduced. the room is quieter and bass now is pretty acceptable. male voice sounds more thick now. occasionally i feel the sound may be a little bit dull and less dynamic comparing to without these panels. but i am able to sit down and listen much longer time than before. only initial findings so i will definitely try them for much longer time to confirm the impact. front wall is the place i havent tried. that will be first priority for me to test.
will post pictures later showing what i am doing. thanks a lot for all the help.
I agree with the gentlemen above with a couple of exceptions.
First, I don't agree that you need absorption/diffusion on the wall behind you (as you sit) I believe you should put absorption on the wall in front of you (behind the tv), otherwise you will immediately perceive it's reduction in the treble range (where the perceived "life" of the music lies. The goal with absorption is to smooth out a rough frequency response by removal of (in your case) excessive midrange "peakiness" and the resulting midrange slap echoes (or distortions.)
Lastly, I believe a subwoofer will only compound/confuse the lack of bass you're experiencing by having your listening position in a "bass null." In fact, I wouldn't recommend getting any serious acoustic treatments (besides a thick area rug and pad) until you have your bass issue sorted out. If AFTER the bass issue is resolved and you still desire some deeper bass - THEN you can get a subwoofer (or 2!) ----------------------------------------------------------------- In the interests of instant gratification: You can check to see if you are sitting in a "bass null" (as I've described) by you, yourself, moving one cushion to the left or to the right...if you get more bass there then you've found the problem! When setting up a speaker system it is usually best (easiest) to find the bass first then make finer adjustments to the midrange and even finer adjustments for the treble - THEN work on acoustics, cables & tweaks. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bring pictures of your space in to your dealer and ask his/her advice about possible directions to pursue in regards to siting your speakers for the best bass response in your room. Good luck, hang in there & try not to get frustrated - hi-fi is supposed to be fun! ;)
Time to go area rug shopping. The bare wall behind the sofa is not helping either. You could hang a large acoustic panel in a plain color there. If the bass is thin a sub would be next on the list.
It's the room Liuhao, maybe too many reflective surfaces, look at your tile floor for starters, get a nice thick rug and some absorption and /or diffusion on the wall behind you and go from there. More help will be on the way soon, that good sound you heard at your dealer can be yours and more. Work with that room, your gear is more than worth it. The magic is gonna happen with just a few obvious room treatments.
