Would love any constructive suggestions for improving 2CH performance...
I started off years ago with big Infinity Kappa 9s and Adcom gear. As time went by, and my listening got more discriminating, that turned into a system built around Quicksilver Silver Edn Mono tube amps and a pair of ProAc Response 2s that kept me happy for a long time. Somehow, that system began to morph into a home theater system that, in its "biggest" incarnation, consisted of a Theta Casablanca digital pre/pro, Theta transport, Audio Research VT- tube amps, and Martin Logan Prodigy - Theater - Scenario speakers.
Then I figured out that the system wasn't particularly satisfying to me--the stats were nice on some material, but didn't do the dynamics the way I used to like with my ProAcs RS2s, and I kept feeling like 2CH performance could be better. I also realized that multichannel didn't enhance my experience a whole lot...
So, that is how I ended up where I am. The dCS stuff is wired together with Kimber Orchid, and everything else is Kimber Silver Streak balanced or ADGL for digital. I tried using the dCS stuff to drive the two VT-100s, but lost something, so I added a preamp into the mix. Also let me drive the two VT-100s with the two balanced outputs from the LS-16 instead of using a Y-splitter. Whatever the reason, sounds better than w/o a preamp. It sounded even better when I used my LS-5 Mk III in the mix, but the convenience of a remote for the LS-16 won out. I think the pre is probably the weak link, and probably the next thing that gets revised.
This also does double duty in the living room for video stuff. I've got component from a CATV HD DVR (SA 8250HD), the DVI from the DV-50S, component from an XBOX, and DVI from a Mac Mini feeding a Pioneer Elite 61" plasma. Video switching done by a Gefen DVI 4x1 switch and an Audio Authority 1154 component video switch. My CATV provider promises me a move to the SA 8300HD DVR "shortly," which will allow me to go DVI to the TV from that as well.
The Mac Mini, I'll note, also connects with a remote 1TB RAID 5 NAS downstairs for serving up .wav files. I've ripped my 1000+ CD Rock/Alt/Blues collection to the server in uncompressed format using EAC. Mucked around with consumer drives, but had enough crashes to warrant the big box--in this case a Dell Powervault 745N inside an Acoustilock xCab acoustic cabinet. Now thinking about a second server to handle the classical CDs.
Whole different league in a lot of ways. Hard to compare the sonic costs and benefits of a amp built around a bunch of 6550s with something built with a couple 845s at over twice the price. I've always found Proacs like power, and I like hearing the drive when I crank up The Clash. I'll leave the esoteric tubes for when I start listening to Amanda Broom. ;)
Right now we are also in the process of intense culinary research, which is fine with me. I really like good food, i think if i wasn't what i am now, i might have become a chef lol. My lady is also very cool and tolerant with my hobbys, heck - she accepted me with my 2dogs, she certainly accepted my sports interests, so the whole stereo thing is noproblemo (I guess she sees it the other way around, stereo doesn't eat or greet you at the door).
these dolls - you just gave me a great idea, i think i'll go for it as well.
Finally - i didn't star my post with the damned "well" :)
One of the benefits here is that she really doesn't care what I do with the main rig, as long as I tell her how to fire it up and it doesn't require more than a page of instructions to watch _My_Name_Is_Earl_ or _West_Wing_...
Actually, the wedding prep stuff isn't bad. Sampling food and cake--hey, that isn't a problem in my book unless its at 8AM on a Saturday. Wedding website? Good excuse for me to learn Flash MX.
B'sides, she's agreed to custom-designed bobble head dolls for the wedding cake... For that, I'm willing to make lots of sacrifices... :)
well, I just go with the flow. its all for her this whole shebang (no pun intended). as long as we can indulge in our little projects and manly silly hobbys after the whole deal, its ok :)
Congrats to you as well... Quite the adventure. It does tend to put a crimp in stereo budget and time available for projects, however. It will all be worth it in the end, but that is sometimes tough to remember when trying form an opinion on minor variations in color tone for some table element. *sigh*
Yeah, I gather the U24 may be toast. Too bad, it was a nice box. You might want to double check the experiences with the Edirols; I used to have a UA-1D (I think that is the name, I'm doing this from memory) and, like a lot of computer devices, it resampled to 48 kHz from 44.1 kHz.
I thought about sticking with the Mac, but the viewsonic I had lying around wasn't compatible with Macs... Its a pretty dumb device and only does remote desktop protocol under Windows.
I did look at the Hush PCs, but the Serener was cheaper, a smaller form factor, and didn't have a things I didn't want (i.e., CD/DVD drive). The Serener is nice, although the LED is like God's flashlight and if you unplug it, it requires jumpering two pins to restart it--its made with industrial applications in mind where users aren't supposed to fool with stuff. I think there may be a "wake on LAN" setting, but its always on so I haven't bothered.
The Squeezeboxes do get the audio from the same place--the network file server. In fact, since the Serener is on all the time, I just installed Slim Server on that, and that box is what serves up audio to the Squeezeboxes (the SB3s are server push--you have to have the slim server application running in the background on something to "send" things to the SB3s). It is just me and my fiancee here, so I haven't really tried to tax things by running multiple Squeezeboxes and the iTunes at the same time...
The Squeezeboxes are dedicated devices with both an analog LR out and a digital coax out. In my case, both are hooked to table radio systems--a Kloss Tivoli in the garage and a Nakamichi Soundspace in the bedroom--so they use the analog outs and I'm relying on the DAC in the SB3. I was going to hook up another one in my pool room, but haven't had the chance; that one will be connected to a real stereo with a Theta DAC, an ARC solid state preamp (LS9) and an ARC D400 driving a pair of Infinity Kappa 9s. Unfortunately, like I said, I haven't gotten around to it... Too many other projects... and the whole wedding thing...
well, as far as using the main display with Mac Mini i thoght it would be not practical, better to add a small lcd, or a wireless touchscreen lcd like this Viewsonic.
as far as the U24 goes - it seems there may be trouble purchasing it, so im thinking about EDIROL UA5 right now.. it as some upsampling capabilities to boot.
now, why did you choose the mini-ITX comp, what other options did you consider? how about Hush http://www.hushtechnologies.net/
and - all these little Squeezebox and/or Roku devices - how do you use them, do they get the music from the same NAS as the main system wit mini-ITX? ane where they send the music then?
btw i really appreciate your answers, your hands on experience is very helpful for someone, who is about to jump into this whole comp-based music server thingy :)
Its a "headless" PC--no keyboard or monitor. Instead, its plugged into my home hardwired ethernet network, and I access it using a viewsonic V110 airpanel--a 10" touchscreen that is wireless (Wi-Fi 802.11b):
The airpanel's only trick is running a remote desktop for another network PC, so essentially it gives me a touchscreen interface to the Serener I can walk around with. The Serener is running iTunes for Windows, which seems pretty easy to manipulate with a touchscreen.
The serener has an 80GB drive--a nice quiet NEC spinpoint--that renders the whole machine inaudible. But, for music storage, I'm really using a Buffalo Terastation. I've still got the Dell NAS, but this one is a whole lot smaller, a whole lot quieter (I can easily live with it in my study), and not much lower performance. The Terastation lives in my study for now, and is a network file server that the serener stays logged into--essentially it appears as a local drive on the serener desktop.
So, once I pick a song from the touchscreen, the serener gets the song off the network drive. It then uses the Waveterminal U24 as an audio output device--it reroutes all audio through the USB out and the Waveterminal U24 converts the USB feed to S/PDIF on coax digital. That then gets fed into my dCS upsampler and then to the dCS DAC.
The Mac Mini was a fine front end--not quite as quiet as the serener. The issue was that the Mac was hooked up to my 61" plasma as a display; I kept finding that it was a PITA to turn on the plasma just to hear music, and then having to dig out the wireless keyboard & mouse... This is *much* easier. But, that set up worked the same as the serener in the sense that it used the same network file resources and output via USB to the Waveterminal U24 and on to the stereo.
This set up also gives me the functionality for the next phase, which is trying to automate using the touchscreen. I can run cinemar's MainLobby to create simple buttons that will execute Girder functions--Girder allows you to do simple functions in an automated way for devices with defined specifications. I figure I'll hang a USB to RS232 port converter off the serener, and use that setup to allow me to generate RS232 commands that can be hardwired into some of my gear--the plasma, an HDMI switcher, the dCS gear, and my PSAudio Power Director. I can also use a USB IR output compatible with Girder to generate IR remote pulses to control the preamp, the CATV box, and the CD/DVD. Unfortunately, haven't had the time to mess with it yet...
forgive my asking such a lame question, but let me get this right: you're feeding your stereo with music from basement NAS server, and Mac Mini is used as a front-end user interface. (the music goes via USB to Waveterminal U24, then to Mac Mini and stright to the DAC; or via USB to Mac Mini and then U24 and the DAC?). and the Mac Mini does not have any external little USB drive with ripped music. is Mac Mini a better front-end than Roku or Squeezebox? or a quiet passively cooled hidden pic (or possibly a laptop)
im trying to figure out how to approach this whole music-server thing, its very temptning (im lazy you know) but i wanna be sure wchich way to chhose before i start buying stuff...
I thought about building my own RAID box, but ultimately the PITA factor was too high. I'm marginally competent with computers, but doing a build like that is a bit outside my comfort zone. B'sides, I bought it from Dell when they were running some special sale, so it ended up costing less than the e*Bay price you cited, with a warranty.
The acoustilock boxes are nice, but the prices are a bit scary--about $2K if I remember right. They are also really, really large. I'll have to upload some photos of the study and the study system at some point. I think there is also an xtreme Mac enclosure that has comparable specs but isn't quite as much. It was desperation--I bought the Dell w/o realizing just how loud it was (747 on take-off). I also couldn't put it anywhere else but my study, so my options were pretty limited. You might think about rolling your own--its basically just a box with baffling for the intake/outflow that is covered on the inside with acoustic foam. I've used similar materials to coat the inside of a Dell PC to quiet it down, and it works well. Think the stuff I bought came from www.quietpc.com.
If you are going to go Mac Mini in the system, why do the squeezebox route? My Mac Mini works great--almost too well, considering the amount I spent on the DV-50S--with the Waveterminal USB audio out. Great setup.
I agree the video copy protection stuff just makes it hard on the consumer. The content holders really need to think about different modes of distribution that use the technology out there rather than trying to defeat the technology itself. Ultimately that always seems to fail.
Sweat Setup, the 60" plasma was definitely the way to go! I want to put up a 50" (can't afford the step up) in my music room.
I'm more interested in your NAS, I'm Systems Engineer for a software company (also did admin for 9 years prior) and I was going to build up a dual proc server with 8 Serial ATA drives and a Sata Raid controller so I could get closer to 1.6-2 terrabytes because I have 600 CD and 400 DVD that I want served up. I checked ebay and found your dell NAS with 400gig drives for $3,600 but that's still a little short on space. So why didn't you build up (other then it's a Pain in the ass) a server with a Serial ATA raid card?
I'm planning on using the Squeezbox 2 to deliver it to my music room and then I'm interested in your server hush box (I can't find a price online and those are great specs down to 35dB!)
I was thinking a Mac mini would really be excellent for my music room as I have a HTPC media center in my movie room.
The whole video copy protection and standards are a joke, I had to buy a Lumagen Scaler so I could switch my 4 HDTV sources and clean up the HTDV Cox Cable because there HDCP wasn't compatible with my PJ's HDCP so I'm running Component HDTV instead for that and my Xbox.
I think the A'gon server drops you at the last message, so you may have landed in the middle of this page--pics are up top. Just scroll up...
As long as I'm here... Gefen did eventually replace my DVI switch with an HDMI/DVI switch. I replaced it last w/e and it seems to pass HDCP correctly, so the CATV Box (HDMI), DVD/CD (DVI) and Mac Mini (DVI) all seem to be working into the Pio plasma (HDMI). My only complaint about the new Gefen box is that the IR port has to be facing out, and they have the output HDMI on the same face as the IR port. Net result is that you have an HDMI cable plugging into the front of a component in a rack, and then snaking back. Seems like bad design to me--I/O ports should be in the back.
Also upgraded the Mac Mini to the new OS, which seems to have fixed my overscan problem. I now have a slight underscan problem, but I can live with that.
Argh. Well, I got an answer from Zektor. Turns out the AVS5.1 in its current version--like the Gefen 4x1 DVI switch--will not pass HDCP when you have an HDMI device as both the input and output. Apparently HDCP is implemented for HDMI using signals that aren't used in the DVI spec. When HDMI and DVI devices talk, the HDMI device agrees to downshift and use the DVI protocol, so things work fine with only one HDMI device. But, if you have HDMI on both sides of the switch, they try to pass signals between them for HDCP that apparently use parts of the DVI that aren't passed by pure DVI devices. So, bottom line is BUY AN HDMI SWITCH, NOT A DVI SWITCH, unless you want problems as more devices go HDMI. Only there aren't that many HDMI switches out there right now. *sigh*
I feel a bit like venting, and this seems like the appropriate place. I upgraded my CATV box to the 8300HD, which was a good move--has a digital out that will down mix to PCM and a digital video output (HDMI) that I figured I'd switch through my Gefen DVI 4x1 switch. Only it doesn't work.
Turns out the Gefen DVI switch, while purporting to be HDCP compatible, somehow mucks up the HDCP when you use HDMI/DVI conversion on both the input and output side. So, even though I can put a HDMI/DVI adapter on a DVI/HDMI cable, connect the HDMI out of my 8300HD to the HDMI in of my Pio plasma and have it work, it doesn't work if you put the Gefen switch in the mix. Gefen seems to be telling me that my choices are buying their 4x1 HDMI/DVI switch for $350 or buying an HDMI splitter for $200 that would attach to the output of my current box (and seemingly have no purpose). That seemed odd to me.
My preferred solution was for Gefen to accept a return of my 2 month old $350 4x1 DVI switch and exchange it for the same price 4x1 HDMI/DVI switch, since it purports to be HDCP compatible and isn't... As brainless as that kind of customer service might be, the rep on the phone wasn't authorized to do that, and I have yet to get an answer to my email to the supervisor.
Given the way I feel about Gefen right now, I think I'll order the Zekton AVS5.1 DVI switch instead. Also switches digital audio, and looks a lot better. Also has all the cables going into the back of the back, instead of into the two sides like the idiotic Gefen design. The silver lining is that it will allow me to get rid of *all* of the coax analog audio cables in my rig, the Audio Authority 1154 switchbox, and all of the component video cables except the one from the XBox, which can be plugged directly into the TV. That should eliminate about 20 coax runs from the cable spaghetti behind my rack.
Guess the only other news is that I have bought OSX Tiger, which I gather will fix the overscan problem I had with the Mac Mini and the plasma.
The room is, as they say, not ideal. This is one side of a large loft room that is 22' x 40'. To the left of the stereo is the kitchen and a space for a dining room. The "living room" area is about 13' x 22'. I thought about trying to put the speakers on the "long" wall, but had to take a reality dose and deal with actual practicality, so they ended up on the short wall.
I'm trying to psych myself into doing some tweaking with the mini. Right now its running iTunes fine, but the DVI out has some severe overscan issues on the Pio plasma. Started beating my head against some of the custom comfigurations programs, but took a hiatus after creating one too many custom timiing files that were incompatible with my monitor totally (necessitates hauling another monitor in and deinstalling the software). Plus, I've still gotta install the software for my El Gato EyeTV500, so I can dump HD to the drive. Then there is the potential for the upgrade to Tiger...
What a cool system -- nice to see the evolution. Looks like you have made alot with a little space. I LOVE the look of your monitor.
How is it going with the Mac Mini? You said in a post that it rivals the quality of the DV 50.
I am concerned about crashes with my Mac G5 but not yet ready to go the "whole hog" route your've taken. You have enough storage to hold your collection and mine! But I think you are wise to protect your time investment of burning so many disks.
System edited: Finally got around to adding some pictures... The PS Audio 4.7 is in the shop b/c the 12V triggers need some work. The older PS Audio is doing temporary duty for now. Its kind of an odd space, but I've done with it what I can in terms of giving the speakers some room to breathe. Hard to tell from the pix, but they are actually pretty far out into the room.
