Great new pictures - very refined, Mike. I don't remember seeing those wall hangings on either side of the room when I visited. The big carpet is new as is the little one under the dart. Can you please explain these changes.

Hope you are doing well, mate.

Regards,

metralla February 26, 2007 11:11

Very nice pictures indeed. They look quite cozy in that room. I would be willing to bet that they sound fantastic.

mikeduke February 26, 2007 08:48

Looks fantastic Mike! I bet it sounds pretty good too ;-)

fsarc February 25, 2007 19:52

System edited: updated pictures with MM3's.

mikelavigne February 25, 2007 19:40

Kharma speakers are very special and among my favorites.....i continue to recommend them. Mr. Kharma, Charles von Oostrum, is a brilliant designer and a stand-up guy who has always been gracious to me.

business competition can sometimes create feelings and judgements that are not based in fact. it is easy to say or write something but much harder to un-say it or un-write it. as a target of it i certainly do not want to be a party to it.

i would appreciate it if we could avoid any 'anti-Kharma' or 'anti-anything' talk here (even though i regretfully openned that particular door).

i guess when you deal with shit you always get some on ya.

mikelavigne February 23, 2007 17:49

I agree with Nikki... if this is what is expected for a future Kharma owner, count me out.

Either way, I'm not going to feed the troll and I applaud Mike for his civility.

Mike.. btw, I have been looking at the darT and it's one mighty fine amp!

Joey

joey_v February 23, 2007 16:51

Sorry Mike as I believe you don't want to give this path anymore mileage, but because of the associations with Kharma, is this an indication of the type of behaviour that is expected for all potential Kharma customers?

nikki February 23, 2007 11:51

Lox wants attention and interaction about his ideas.....which is no different than me or anyone else. previously he had expressed an intention to find another place to conduct his agenda; but his system thread has apparently not attracted enough 'action' to please him so here he is. at least his current comments are a 'bit' more civil.

as much as i appreciate the support and agree he should take his direction to a more open forum i would appreciate just leaving his comments alone so as not to stop the flow here. i think he already gets the drift and is just trolling. please don't feed the troll.

that is just my perspective.

mikelavigne February 23, 2007 09:37

For Loxodrome,
This site is for hardware and that's what most people are interested in here. Mike and all his admirers probably work really hard to make the money for these systems and enjoy the diversion of comparing equipment and also the pleasure from hearing music reproduced better and differently as they go up the audio ladder.
Mike has every right to enjoy as he chooses and if you want a discussion of music then go read album covers. Audiogon is about hardware...what else would you expect everyone to talk about here?
I enjoy reading about his evolution even though I am a committed single ended tube head.

khaki8 February 23, 2007 00:01

Loxodrome, Pyshcobabble aside, I'm happy for you that your father lets you drive his sports car. It must be a rush to drive. Howard Hughs for reading material? So cliche'. Age appropiate though. By the way, your father's right speaker is toed in about 5 degrees too much.

talon4 February 22, 2007 22:39

.
Loxodrome,
.
Get off this thread and stay off. We do not need your B.S. here.
.

cello February 22, 2007 20:31

IGNORE list!

sc53 February 22, 2007 15:51

Mr Mike! Lots of posts!

I thought I should contribute to the discussion with a quote from a multi respected
Absolute Sound prophet:

“I have come to think that the audio über alles types get restless after awhile with any component. Once they either get used to its sound or can identify its failings, they require a change of sonic scenery in order to get their “fix.” It’s not the music that counts, it’s the sensation evoked by its sonic architecture.”

Opinions? Loxotoxic

loxodrome February 22, 2007 13:36

Thanks again Mike.
I have looked at getting dedicated lines, but for my room, it would be a pain. I have to make due with what I have at my disposal. The rack is a good first step I think. Then I will get rid of the monster stuff and get something that may be a bit less of a hinderense to my system. Who knew the rack was so important.

mikeduke February 21, 2007 12:24

Mike; the Grand Prix stuff is very good and not hocus pocus. the legs de-couple from the floor and then you can tune each shelf with different sorbothane foam pucks to optimize isolation based on the weight and weight distribution of each piece of gear. i like the fact that it is simple and elegant.

regarding power conditioning (Monster PC's) i would first recommend dedicated circuts and quality dedicated duplex outlets before getting carried away with power conditioning or power cords. it's not cheap but 'cheaper' than many power cords and conditioners. until that is done it's hard to assign cause and effect while trying other A/C products.

cleaning up your power grid is just a good foundation to system refinement.

mikelavigne February 21, 2007 12:14

Mike . The last post do clear my confusion tq

audioblazer February 21, 2007 11:50

The dealer who sells the Dart also sells Grand Prix. When I showed him a picture of my equipment I thought he was going to send over the audio police :). He said that I may want to check out the LeMans rack. I would need 8 shelves so that would be more cost effective for me. He indicated that the difference would NOT be subtle. I admit, I have only thought about it a little. I got SRA platforms to go under my amps because my amps were sitting on my monster power conditioners. Since that seems to be a weak link as well, I should probably consider doing that before the pre. That way when I get the preamp I will be good to go.
Thanks for the reply Mike.

mikeduke February 21, 2007 11:45

Mike; a good rack is important if you are optimizing your system. there are numerous valid approaches to controling resonance in your gear. then there is the matter of taste and WAF which is not insignificant.

you need to understand what sort of floor you have and the kind of challenges it creates.

i use to use the Zoethecus racks; which were beautiful but not the last word in isolation. i played around for 10 years with various kinds of isolation devices (too numerous to mention--my drawers are full of them). then last year i finally went with the Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack with Formula shelves, SE frame, and Apex footers. the GPA uses a 'de-coupling' approach on various levels to isolate your gear from resonance. it works great.

if you look thru my thread over the last couple of years you will see a good deal of expanded comments on my recent rack experiences. later when i get a chance i will try to identify some of those posts for you.

there are a number of other rack systems that are suppose to be very good; i would recommend doing a search here on AudiogoN for threads about racks.

there is another level beyond racks i have resently discovered. a company called Halcyonic makes an active isolation shelf for electron microscopes that has a profound difference on image focus and levels of resolution. but they are $7500 each.

mikelavigne February 21, 2007 10:48

Audioblazer; sorry if i wasn't more clear. what i meant was that the speaker cables should go from the amp to the tweeter/mid-range terminal; and then the jumper would go from the tweeter/mid-range terminal to the woofer terminal.

in other words; you 'jump' down.

bi-wiring would be taking 2 separate sets of speaker cables and running both from the same amp but then one to the tweeter/mid-range and the other to the woofer.

it's debatable which approach is better; in theory bi-wiring can be.

mikelavigne February 21, 2007 10:01

Gererick; i don't have the technical knowledge to be an authoritative resource for you; but i am happy to give you my opinion anyway.....for what that is worth.

i wonder what sort of ceiling you have. thin-ness/brightness can come from ceiling issues many times in my experience. it is a matter of having strong untreated early reflections.....how about 'slap-echo'? do you get a very reverberant slap echo that decays slowly? that will definitey cause brightness. Rives can fix either issue a number of ways.

assuming that you deal with the thin-ness/brightness issues in some way (these are relatively simple issues to fix) then you get to your question about woofer configuration.

i first used the MM3 as an MM2 (without the top woofer/subwoofer). in most ways the MM2 and MM3 sound the same. where the MM3 has a few advantages are in a bit of additional 'weight' in the bass which allows you to use more tweeter gain and achieve more dynamics at lower SPL's. also; since the impedence of the 2 woofers is different than one it allows the digital amp to be more efficient along with more cone surface area from 2 15" woofers. they are more linear (better detail and texture in the bass) and less stressed (faster with more ease and grip). these differences are small but real.

in speaking to Kevin Malmgren about the benefits of the top woofer/subwoofer he spoke to better balance since the 2 mid-range drivers will have equal support from 2 woofer/subwoofers. i would have to agree with him as the current balance and level of bass coherence i hear is unique in my listening experience.

regarding the benefits to your room of the MM3 i would say the additional cone surface will control the bass better. as far as dealing with nulls and peaks better my feeling is that 4 15" subwoofers will have less distortion than 2. you need all the bass 'horsepower' you can get.

with a relativly small room having just the bottom sub would also have benefits over having two.....just from being able to match the level of presurization to the room properly and still be able to play loud.....particularly with a low ceiling the upper sub could be too close to that boundary.

i have found that in my room sometimes what i percieved as room problems had more to do with speaker frequency problems and speaker bass distortion. when i improved my frequency balance and speaker accuracy (say...with a better amp rack or power cord)......much of my 'peaks and nulls' issues vanished.

with the dramatic length of your room the issues you have are above my level of understanding. hopefully some of my response can be of help.

mikelavigne February 21, 2007 00:45

Mike TQ for clearing some confusion in me. what do u mean by " I will go 1st to the tweeter then to the bass"? Happy listening

audioblazer February 20, 2007 23:51

Mike,
Can you share your experiences with equipment racks that you have had. Do they really make a difference? I am just wondering if it is worth it for my system.

mikeduke February 20, 2007 15:24

Hello Mike: I have had 3 different high-end speakers ($10k to $20k) in my too-large room (18' x 48') which is also not closed off from other rooms. I've had problems with thin-ness/brightness. I have heard my speakers work well in smaller rooms. I am interested in the sound of the MM3 because of the woofer configuration (i.e. both above and below the mid-range and the tweeter). Do you have any particular awareness of the difference between the MM3-style configuration and one where there is no woofer above the mid-tweet? Fuller, rounder, etc. without loss of detail? If yes, is it partly because of the configuration or more because general build quality. Do you have any knowledge of the technical aspects of having a woofer high and low, as it relates peaks and nulls from floor, ceiling, walls? I have had Rives design a basement room for me which is not yet built; they took a large area to work with and made it shorter front-to-back. This is sound from an audio perspective, but I would rather have a larger room than a smaller one (for guests, etc.) The MM3's in a larger space might not have the same brightness and thin-ness, such that I can have my larger room without giving up too much. The MM3's might also over-power the back wall reflection, which is why for technical reasons I cannot have a longer room. My current speakers have two woofers near the floor, then mid, then tweet on top. I can always tell exactly where the tweeters are, with my eyes closed. Sorry to babble.

gererick February 20, 2007 10:47

Audioblazer, i used jumpers with the Kharma Exquisites and the Opus; although they were quite short. my opinion would be that i would go first to the tweeter and then to the bass.....as any degredation would be more audible in the mid-treble region. the best approach would be to do some listening both ways and see how it goes.

it should sound great on the VR4sr....which i really liked when i've listened to. the VR4sr certainly has the resolution to appreciate the Opus.....although it is a bit of overkill from a dollar standpoint.

the Transparent jumpers you have should be fine. you can purchase Opus jumpers (which i did investigate for the upper bass units on the VR11's to avoid 'tri-wiring').....but there is no network on the jumpers so the benefit would be minimal.

mikelavigne February 20, 2007 10:27

U did answered me. just that I seems to have difficulty posting. Wld appreciate if u cld help me on the following. I believe ur quite familiar with Von schweikert speakers. Currently I m using a VR4sr. The midrange/tweeter module is connected to the bass unit with datalink which I thk is the weak link for this speaker. The top midrange unit has 2binding posts &the bass unit 4binding posts. Instead of biwiring ( currently I m using a Transparent reference speaker cable), I thought it wld be more economical to connect Opus to the bass unit, use a Transparent Jumper cable to connect the bass binding posts and buy a 0.75m Transparent Biwire adapter to connect the midrange to the bass unit. How bad is the sound degradation with such cable arrangement? TQ in advance. Yr input is much appreciated. Happy listening

audioblazer February 19, 2007 23:44